Messed up with nitro. Now what?

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by matt117, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Had my toner on this neck, and liked The colour I had achieved. Now I went and sprayed clear coat a week later over top and I guess I got too much on. Really didn’t seem like it or feel like it.
    But now the toner started running. So I now have an ugly neck I think I’ve ruined.
    What’s the course of action?
    Wait a couple days and start sanding?
    What grit will go through nitro?

    Or what else? It’s pretty blotchy.

    I’m thinking I’ll have to start over. I’ll just go with tru oil this time.
     
  2. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Meister

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    Nice thing about nitro is that it takes forever to cure and melts into itself. You might be able to simply wipe things down with thinner and clean up the mess.

    Check out
    https://www.reranch.com

    The Reranch 101 and guide sections.
     
  3. RodeoTex

    RodeoTex Poster Extraordinaire

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    Are the frets in? Maple fb?
     
  4. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    A45EB795-A909-481F-BA9E-0762FB68CE16.jpeg Yes maple and frets in.

    I wiped it off and maybe shouldn’t have.
     
  5. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Meister

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    Go to reranch.com they also have a forum full of denizens who actually know their stuff.

    And don't sweat it. Nothing that can't be fixed.
     
  6. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks I’ll do some reading. Think this can be saved or needs to be sanded back?
     
  7. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted

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    You can try redying the section that cam off, you have nothing to loose. It seldom gets the color right where it overlapd. If it doesn't you will have to wipe it all off.

    I spray nitro exclusively and it is a great forgiving product. If you get runs of sags don't wipe them!!! Take 400-600 grit paper and lightly sand them down until gone. Don't sand too much or you will end up with a dip in the finish. Move forward with spraying more nitro until done.

    You don't want heavy coats on nitro. Do 3 light passes on each coat, repeat, repeat, repeat every 15-30 minutes, or whenever you get back to it in my case. I like 8-10 coats total with last couple flood coats for a nice gloss.

    Eric
     
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  8. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Hey Eric. In your opinion from my picture. Is it going to be way to obvious if I try to colour over it again?
    And that my wiping off was too detrimental?

    Do you hang your necks to spray and spray the neck width side to side rather then somehow having it sitting horizontal to spray length wise?
     
  9. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Also if I have to restart what is the best way to take everything off?
    Sanding?
    Or is there a stripper that doesn’t eat the fret markers?
     
  10. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted

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    In my experience, yes it will be obvious. If you are good with an airbrush & lightly spray the areas feathering the color you might get by with it. Have nothing to lose by trying.

    Yes, wiping was detrimental. We all try it starting out. How do you think I learned not to do it.

    I hang my necks verticle and spray the length rather than across.

    The best way to take it off on my experience when coats are light like this stage is plane old lacquer thinner and rags. Wipe until gone and go at it.

    Eric
     
  11. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    I’m using an aerosol can of nitro, are there tricks to get the spray pattern to be horizontal so I can spray vertically up and down the length of the neck? I haven’t tried turning the inside of the nozzle... if that’s a thing to do?
     
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  12. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Please see bottom of post.

    Lacquer does NOT cure. It dries only by evaporation without any chemical curing. It does melt into itself, but if applied too thickly solvent entrapment occurs resulting in blisters, bubbles and uneven melting into lower levels of color or toner.

    Each coat should be applied in 3 extremely light passes, with a single coat not fully covering or flowing out evenly. Those will occur as coats build and the coats melt into each other.

    Conventional aerosols like Mohawk, Behlens, Valspar, Rust-Oleum, ReRanch, and Watco - properly applied - dry in 30-60 minutes per coat - but please read the definition of a coat again.. Colortone and Deft are lacquer enamels and are completely different, with very slow dry times.

    You don't want to do that. You should always work from the top and work your way down. Otherwise you'll end up with overspray over previously applied coating. This will cause sandy feeling deposits, runs and other issues.

    It appears you are applying the material too heavily. If the toner ran under the clear coat you're probably applying the equivalent of 4-5 coats of material in one pass.

    =>On necks I usually apply One coat of sanding sealer (which is applied a little heavier than other coats because it's the only one that is sanded); then a couple of coats of toner, which may not cover fully - and that's perfectly OK.

    Because the clear coats will flow the toner out evenly if you apply them the same way. Generally I only apply 3-4 clear coats on necks to avoid the sticky feeling of heavily built up gloss materials.

    I also prefer finishing necks prior to fretting; if a neck if fretted I invert it every other coat, and always work from top down to avoid overspray on wet coating!

    Did you read any materials about spray technique and practice spraying before starting? Lacquer is not paint and can't be applied like paint. Full coverage coats trap solvents, may never dry properly, foul underlying color and toner coats and even if they DO appear to dry may eventually bubble, blister and/or delaminate.

    And NEVER sand between coats except to fix tiny runs, if any.

    Take some scrap wood and practice spraying until you can apply the ENTIRE system - sanding sealer, toner coats, clear coats and buffing - without any problems BEFORE working on the neck.

    I have been finishing guitars for over 45 years and worked in technical positions the coatings industry for 40+ years, and I STILL do full practice applications if I include even ONE new material in a coatings system. Otherwise, I could be blindsided by a problem. And I HATE surprises.

    As far as that neck, sorry to say you can't "fix" the finish and make it look even now that you've ewiped areas down to the sealer (or bare wood). It needs to be fully stripped. And hopefully you applied sanding sealer, whih keeps toner pigments from penetrating into raw wood. With no sealer even stripping may not remove the toner color evenly. You might need to either bleach the wood (with 2-step wood bleach) or go with a much darker toner.

    When you practice, if you run into problems like that (you shouldn't) and try to fix them you find out they're unrecoverable - and that's WHY you practice spray on scrap wood and learn how the materials work FIRST. Then work on the real thing - to avoid time consuming and expensive issues like this one.

    Lots of practice, light, multi-pass coats, no sanding, and work top down. Those are the conventions of lacquer application.
     
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  13. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Meister

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    I always and I mean ALWAYS do test samples using the spiecies of wood I'm dealing with vs. the various paints, MFG's, and coatings I will be applying... before I actually start working on the subject item. All paints, varnishes, stains, finishes are NOT created equal... even within their respective MFG's. Chemical reactions can happen that can have disasterous effects, especially between brands. I found this out the hard way years ago when something I was staining vs. the finish I put on it were not compatible chemically, and what happened was a complete and total mess causing much chaos and redo, and it was no fun. So... just my 2 cents from experience.

    As for your project, not to worry. As others have already stated, it can be repaired... albeit a bit more work on your part. Good luck! We've all been there... you're not the first, and you won't be the last ;)
     
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  14. jimilee

    jimilee Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Relicing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Going to purchase some sealer tomorrow to ensure I do not stain the wood with toner. Then will try all over again.

    Using aerosols cans, how do you all spray a hanging neck when the spray pattern out of the can is vertical?
    It just doesn’t cover the width of the neck when I want to spray length wise, up and down.

    Sanding wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.
    D17DF350-DBA9-4011-A3A4-932D8201CE2F.jpeg
     
  16. Chief101

    Chief101 TDPRI Member

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    I’m fairly sure ReRanch sends three (3) tips with their cans for different spray patterns - standard round, vertical fan pattern, horizontal fan pattern. I’ve used their nitro products with great success.
     
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  17. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks I’ll look into that
     
  18. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    That is NOT how to spray, as I previously noted.

    You ALWAYS work from top to bottom to avoid overspray issues - droplets landing on partially dried coating do not melt in fully and leave small bumps on the surface previously completed.

    Hang the neck, and spray ACROSS it - parallel to the frets. 3 VERY, VERY light strokes across the width of the neck; then move down and only overlap a small amount or you'll overload lines of coating.

    Work down to the bottom - that's one coat. Then work on the back/sides - this takes practice. In order to keep the spray fan at the same distance you have to move around the neck. Otherwise you'll end up with the dreaded "golf swing"with the center of the pass too heavy and the edges too light. KEEP THE DISTANCE CONSISTENT!

    For neck practice I suggest buying a length of 2x3, cutting several neck-length pieces, and rounding the back plus putting a curve at the top. Practice moving in a half-circle to keep the fan even on the back; on the front DO NOT swing the can - move it absolutely even with the relatively flat shape of the "fretboard".

    3 very light passes make one coat, which will appear to be insufficient. That's GOOD. If your coats are ALL too light it just means you put on less material and you'll apply more coats - NOT more material!

    When you get those practice boards coated evenly and smoothly and can buff them up to a gloss (then rub them down with 3m pads if you want a satin) THEN you will be ready to work on the neck again.

    But be patient and don't touch the neck until you refine your technique for the WHOLE job! Impatiencea nd hurrying are what wreck most projects.
     
  19. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Here’s the neck after my last coat of clear.
    What do you all recommend for sanding/buffing?
    Necessary?
    2450ED97-8483-44E3-99C7-105DD423DE37.jpeg 3D547372-22ED-478F-BA0F-6DD3DA554380.jpeg 4C89E199-7695-49F3-8AC0-7CABC54DCB00.jpeg B270130C-EEF6-45D2-AC7C-CCE2F4CAE57C.jpeg 56448C0C-FFC8-41DE-8144-0819187EC9AE.jpeg
     
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  20. matt117

    matt117 Tele-Holic

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    Double post.
     

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