Martin CEO-7 vs. Santa Cruz H13 vs. Huss & Dalton Crossroads

[elihu]

But yea, it's very unlikely I'd be able to play any of these in person before I buy. Possibly the Martin, but definitely not the Santa Cruz or Huss Dalton.

Congrats on your search and the ability to get a once in a lifetime guitar. Buying such an instrument is a big event for us guitar lovers. I remember thinking about tone woods, specs, builder reputations etc. until my brain was sore. And the result of such time spent gave me some intellectual biases that in the long run were not exactly helpful. I really had to go out and play some guitars. And in retrospect that was way more fun than my previous obsession over details.

I realize that may be problematic during this particular time. Maybe find a store with a good return policy like the Guitar Center in Harrisburg?

 

[63 vibroverb]

Congrats on your search and the ability to get a once in a lifetime guitar. Buying such an instrument is a big event for us guitar lovers. I remember thinking about tone woods, specs, builder reputations etc. until my brain was sore. And the result of such time spent gave me some intellectual biases that in the long run were not exactly helpful. I really had to go out and play some guitars. And in retrospect that was way more fun than my previous obsession over details.

I realize that may be problematic during this particular time. Maybe find a store with a good return policy like the Guitar Center in Harrisburg?

I’m not obsessing over details at all. If I closed my eyes and picked any of them, I’m sure I’d be happy and could tweak the setup and strings if needed. Just wanted to hear people’s experiences on these 3.

 

[elihu]

I’m not obsessing over details at all. If I closed my eyes and picked any of them, I’m sure I’d be happy and could tweak the setup and strings if needed. Just wanted to hear people’s experiences on these 3.

Good! Then I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is significant variation even among the exact same model of guitar that's only discernable by playing them.

 

[newminglewoodblue]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. With that said, the Santa Cruz will blow the panties off the other 2. H&D is great! I'm a certified Martin fan. But the SC I let get away was/is in a league of its own. FWIW, since you're talking 00 size, and your budget flush, consider Martin custom shop OO-18 with toasted adi top, hide glue construction. Mine has a cutaway which i love! Mark at Guitar Hotline visits Martin factory from time to time and can hand select your wood. If he doesn't visit personally, in my experience he's delivered 2 home run winners to me.

 

[newminglewoodblue]

PS: I disagree that you will find significant differences within same models. The differences within same model between different examples by these makers is very subtle, and very consistent. Outliers exist but are more the exception.

 

[63 vibroverb]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. With that said, the Santa Cruz will bow the panties off the other 2. H&D is great! I'm a certified Martin fan. Bu the SC I let get away was/is in a league of its own. FWIW, since you're talking 00 size, and your budget flush, consider Martin custom shop OO-18 with toasted adi top, hide glue construction. Mine has a cutaway which i love!

PS: I disagree that you will find significant differences within same models. The differences between these makers very subtle, and consistency surprising. outliers exist but more the exception.

Thanks man, another vote for Santa Cruz

Love the tele in your profile picture - is it walnut?

 

[Bergy]

Been playing a Huss and Dalton as my primary acoustic for 20 years or so (the serial number on mine is like #494 or something). It is one of the finest guitars I’ve ever played but....it is kinda hard to find H&D out here and none of the other H&Ds I’ve played have seemed as good as the one I own. They’ve gotten a bit more expensive over the years, too. At one point I emailed them cuz I lost the strap pin, I immediately got a response from a nice woman whose last name was Dalton. Pretty cool.

 

[newminglewoodblue]

Thanks man, another vote for Santa Cruz

Love the tele in your profile picture - is it walnut?

It's a Ron Kirn Lob Lolly pine, she's great!

 

[Dreadnut]

Went to Elderly Instruments a few years back with my friend who wanted to get a new guitar. He liked the Martin D-16. I asked if they had more than the one on the shop floor and the kid fetched 5 more of them from upstairs. We picked out the nicest one, and my friend left with a sweet sounding and looking Martin. (I would have bought the Tacoma Guild D-50 Bluegrass Special though, LOL, but it was $300 more.) Anyway, it's nice to have the opportunity to play a bunch of guitars if you're going to buy a higher-end one. Good luck in your venture!

 

[Vanzant]

I love my Santa Cruz!

 

[63 vibroverb]

Unfortunately, when this whole pandemic settles down, I’m gonna be really broke. It was nice to fantasize for a little bit...

 

[Modernelove]

Of those I’ve only seen and played a Martin CEO7 but it was an excellent guitar.

 

[imwjl]

@63 vibroverb I always say delay gratification and get what really speaks to you or grabs you.

Now I'll confess that a little more than 10 years ago a particular Santa Cruz did that to me. It's an OMS (14 fret OOO in Martin lingo). The H13s I've tried have been amazing. I tried lots of similar and other guitars before the one just got me.

On the money.... Recently I was shocked by how much more guitars like it cost now, and the used market value compared to many others. The big cost pretty much ended GAS. The one versatile guitar works for my own doodles and when I go to a particular old time music jam. Basically, 10 years and 4 months later I have no regrets. I'd have wasted more money the way I was otherwise buying and selling stuff.

My comments on the Santa Cruz make. Living where there are great options to try many fine guitars I noticed the SCGC stock would always have the super responsive nature the best guitars have. They would not be too extreme toward bass, treble or mid range tone. I think the very responsive characteristic and balanced tone are part of why I'm GAS-free more than 10 years later.

BTW, it reads like a few should post in this small but wonderful club.

scgc-santa-cruz-guitar-company-owners-club.193662

 

[TwangerWannabe]

All depends on how much you want to spend since there's a pretty big difference in price between those three. What made you narrow it down to those three? Did you play a bunch and fiddle it down to those three, or did you just pick these three based on reviews form others, YouTube, etc? If I was going to spend several thousands on a guitar I'd be darn sure I'd get to play it first.

Also would help if you told us what style of music you play or expect to play on the guitar, what scale length you prefer, nut width preference, etc.

Not on your list, but I recently picked up a Martin Custom OM15. Surprisingly sweet little guitar that's an upgrade form the standard 000-15M. Differences over the off the shelf 000-15M include a wider nut (1 3/4"), wider string spacing at the saddle, gloss finish and faux tortoise binding. It is an all-mahogany guitar though (including the top), but it's a great addition if you have other guitars like dreads or other spruce topped guitars. Does the blues thing exceptionally well if you're into that, the wider nut and wider string spacing make it great for finger picking and is a great singer/songwriter guitar and strums really well. All for well under $2k new, less used. They also make it in 0 and 00 sizes.

 

[DrPepper]

Most likely I will be buying one of the three used. And probably won’t be able to play them beforehand.

Sight unseen, SCGC. they are more consistent, more likely to get a dud with the other two... Better resale value as well.

 

[imwjl]

Sight unseen, SCGC. they are more consistent, more likely to get a dud with the other two... Better resale value as well.

I have to agree. I live where there are really well stocked stores so have been able to try many guitars. The long at it small makers stuff always has a super responsive nature even though a factory bigger factory made guitar can be just as good.

My 2009 made Santa Cruz is a beloved thing I do not want to sell but I recently saw a similar model that even had a crack repair go for $200 less than I paid for it.

The amazing characteristic hard to describe is now much sound bare fingers get and how same guitar can go to a jam and do a bluegrass run with a heavy pick.

The Santa Cruz do seem to have a more neutral tone where maybe a Collings or others might be attractive. 10+ years later I think that balanced tone is a big part of why I'm GAS-free.

 

[Bill]

One thing I’d say is, don’t settle on volume or bass response if that’s what you want. Unlike most low to mid-priced modern versions, the old guitars these are based on had plenty of volume and low-end.

My 1930 L-1 has no problem keeping up with my 1950 J-45 in either regard.

 

[RCinMempho]

I have a CEO-7 that continues to amaze me.

Truth is, any of those will likely be the best guitar you've ever owned, and whatever you buy is going to influence the way you play. With that in mind, if there are any factors that favor one model over another in terms of suiting what you want to play, I'd lean toward that one. Guitars like these are going to heavily influence the nuances of the way you play. If one of them seems to push in your favorite direction more than the others, then that is one I would pick.

Good luck.

 

[63 vibroverb]

All depends on how much you want to spend since there's a pretty big difference in price between those three. What made you narrow it down to those three? Did you play a bunch and fiddle it down to those three, or did you just pick these three based on reviews form others, YouTube, etc? If I was going to spend several thousands on a guitar I'd be darn sure I'd get to play it first.

Also would help if you told us what style of music you play or expect to play on the guitar, what scale length you prefer, nut width preference, etc.

These three just sound the best to me on videos and all seem to be spoken of highly. And I love the look of them. Like I said, it's not because I'm choosing not to try them out, but they most likely would not be carried around where I live (possibly the Martin CEO-7, but highly unlikely for the other 2).

Basically, I'm really wanting a good L-00 type guitar with a 1.75" nut width. I love fingerpicking delta blues and ragtime, slide, open tunings - but I also love playing ethereal dreamy kinda stuff too. The Huss & Dalton seems to be the most straightforward/traditional take on it, Martin is kind of a hybrid of different makes, and the Santa Cruz has got the Nick Lucas thing going on with the 13th fret attachment and the 5" body depth.

 

[TwangerWannabe]

These three just sound the best to me on videos and all seem to be spoken of highly. And I love the look of them. Like I said, it's not because I'm choosing not to try them out, but they most likely would not be carried around where I live (possibly the Martin CEO-7, but highly unlikely for the other 2).

Basically, I'm really wanting a good L-00 type guitar with a 1.75" nut width. I love fingerpicking delta blues and ragtime, slide, open tunings - but I also love playing ethereal dreamy kinda stuff too. The Huss & Dalton seems to be the most straightforward/traditional take on it, Martin is kind of a hybrid of different makes, and the Santa Cruz has got the Nick Lucas thing going on with the 13th fret attachment and the 5" body depth.

Check out the Waterloo WL-14. They also make the WL-12, which is a 12 fretter. Both are VERY traditional and take a lot of cures from the old Gibson 00's, are great guitars, but like a lot of 00's may not be everyone's cup of teas, but for ragtime, blues, singer songwriter stuff for the person who isn't looking for a massive dread sound, the Waterloos are tough to beat. Waterloo's intention with the WL-14 was to be geared toward the player who wanted a real Gibson 00 from the 1930's, but didn't want to deal with paying a premium for an original and then also have to deal with all the other things that may come along with buying a guitar that age, like neck resets, refrets, and any number of repairs and issues old guitars have, and can end up costing a small fortune to bring back to life and get into playable condition. I've had a few of these and prefer the x-braced WL-14's over the ladder braced, but plenty of blues players like the ladder braced versions.

Only thing is the smaller 00's tend to sound a bit boxy, and regardless of what others will say, their 00 may be "loud and have plenty of bass", it's not going to be like a dread. Some describe that as being more balanced, while others will say the smaller body guitars lack low end. That's all up to the person listening. Also, what you hear on YouTube clips, or what one particular guitar may sound like will probably be very different in person or from one guitar to the next. I would highly advise ordering one sight unseen if all you have to go on are Youtube clips.

I think what happens with a lot of people is they sort of get this idea of what a particular guitar is going to sound like from just watching online videos, and over time that sounds sort of gets hyped up in their brain, and because all they have to go on are clips they've listened to and watched online, once they get the guitar in person it's not always what they've imagined it would sound like.