Marshall Origin 50 or 20?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Rufus, May 19, 2020.

  1. GearHund

    GearHund Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    I have the OR-20H that I run through a Emmy Legend GB128. It's a pretty good amp setup for home use. I don't gig anymore, but when playing with old band buddies it has more than enough volume. The GB128 is a super efficient speaker (101.3 dB) I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

    Overall, I was pleasantly surprised at sounds this thing can put out. Great amp for the money.

     
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  2. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Aggh! You sold me on that, and it's actually only $12 a month for 36 months. I pay well more than $12 a week for beer (goodbye beer money:()!

    Anyway, I just couldn't refuse, and just bought the 20 head...
     
  3. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    I owned the Origin 50 head for a period of time, and I approached it with a similar question of whether or not it would give me that early Marshall tone. The way the amp was marketed captured my imagination; wow what would it be like to have something that gave me that Page, Kossof, Young kind of vibe.

    The answer to that is... kind of but not quite, depending on what you have to hand.

    Like the OP I also have a Weber Mass III attenuator which I played the 50 head through and into a 2X12 semi-open back pine cab.

    My biggest problem was that I genuinely had a tough time getting that classic AC/DC, Cream, Zeppelin, plexi tone with the amp alone.

    In the end, I could get a great tone, but only by having the amp on max wattage and going through the attenuator. I also pushed the master volume to 10, and the preamp to about 8 or so. The final key ingredient was having a 10-band EQ in the effects loop, with a bit of a low-mid scoop and bass boost. At the end of the day, that gain level was still just a rhythm tone that maybe suited GnR because too much preamp gain made the sound fizzy, regardless of treble or presence.

    Was it a "plexi" tone? I don't know, it was definitely a kind of generic "Marshall" sound, and nothing that I could not get from a good MIAM pedal. So to go through that convoluted process just to get the amp to behave in a certain way, made me realise this was not quite worth it.

    That said, the clean tone was really, really good, FWIW. Great pedal platform if what you were after was a fat clean with little more mid-range complexity compared to the typical scooped BF tones that people seem to gravitate toward.
     
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  4. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I don’t think my 20 does the Plexi thing at all. It strikes me far more as a JTM vibe. It’s an earlier sound. A different character of breakup from a Plexi style amp. That’s why I wanted it, and I feel like it really delivers. But I’m not after gain. I’m after that JTM style clean and light breakup.

    I don’t know who to blame for people buying these and expecting a Plexi vibe. I don’t *think* Marshall has marketed it that way. But I do know they have touted it as low gain and vintage voiced. I guess more people than I thought don’t think anything other than “Plexi” when they hear those words and “Marshall” in the same sentence.

    I read a ton of reviews and was hoping it was as much in the JTM realm as people were claiming. I’m super happy with it. If it had that early JTM tremolo it would be perfect.
     
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  5. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    I played an Origin 50 combo today...I have to say was intrigued. I would have liked to spend more time with it. I should have played the head connected to a stack but they were limiting the number of people in the store and I didn't want to take all day.

    The area GC's and Sam Ash only had the Origin 50 model heads and combos, but not the Origin 20s (and NO Sv-20H Vintage Plexis). The young salesman said it "seemed" that GC was maybe not getting anymore 20's. Is there any rumor of a Mark II for the Origin 20?

    I came to the conclusion (same as Jakedog ) that the sound I really want is more of a JTM-45 than a Plexi...its great but I just don't think I'd put THAT much distortion to use. I definitely want breakup, but not as much pure distorted tones...more the Bluesbreaker era Clapton, earlier Who, early Hendrix tones, before the 100 watt Plexis.

    ...which led me back to the Ceriatone website...he makes a handwired 35 watt copy of the JTM-45 in Malaysia (or Singapore I think). They get great reviews. You can get the full working chassis without head cab for $875 or a full working chassis without head cab or tubes for $745. That's a damn good price for a quality handwired amp!

    I'm planning on making my own head cab since I have a fantastic Incra finger joint jig, router table, and woodworking tools, clamps etc.

    You can get his JTM/ Bluesbreaker model with Tremolo for an additional $50. Shipping is probably $75-100, but I've read that if you order thru one of their US reps, its shipped to California, then you only have to pay US shipping to your address...or something like that.

    Hmmm...gonna have to do more research...but it IS fun!
     
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  6. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yeah. Sorry. Nobody wants a Plexi tone at home and not in a mix.

    rip yer head off bright. That’s why Eddie dimed everything. They only “warm up” on 10 and even then the iso guitar tracks are bright, bright, bright.

    The SV20 on 5w is LOUD before it breaks up. On 20w it’s unreal. No MV.

    For home?! C’mon. Origin 20.

    I owned an SV20 and SC20. Kept the Origin 50. Can’t imagine using that at home either though. I can easily rehearse over a heavy drummer, bass and other guitar player on mid power and even low power.
     
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  7. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    He has the amp badged as a Marshall but the video is labelled Ceriatone JTM-45.
    Its a Les Paul, but I like these tones...
     
  8. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    More like my idea of a Strat thru a JTM-45
     
  9. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    A guy playing a Strat thru a Ceriatone JTM-50 clone in his kitchen
     
  10. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    If you can take it, trillionaire Johan S (who owns EVERY piece of vintage gear you can think of) compares a Ceriatone JTM-45 with a 1967 Marshall 50 Watt Bass Plexi
     
  11. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    Last one, sorry...pretty convincing imitation.
     
  12. El Marin

    El Marin Tele-Afflicted

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  13. jgmouton

    jgmouton Tele-Meister

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    I bought an O20 combo 2 years ago and it's really great sounding. If you intend to use it for home only, the O20 is the ticket (but even for stage the 20W is loud enough). I think that amp has the JTM45 sound and to achieve that I put the Master to full and the Gain to 12 o'clock. The result is gorgeous but loud for home use.
     
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  14. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I'm 100% in line with you on this Jake!

    Marshall never marketed the Origins as Plexi's, but everyone seems to think that's where Marshall amps started... It's like guys say, oh, the JTM-45 was Marshall's first amp, and they act like it was only in production for a week or two before high gain amps hit. LOL

    I do think Marshall did the Origins a disservice by releasing the Studio series amps so quickly afterwards. Plus, I don't think they push enough of the differentiating features of the Origin very well. Maybe they make more off each Studio amp? But, it was like Marshall hyped the Origins, until they came out. Then, they seem to have almost walked away from them?
     
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  15. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think I really wanna actively save up my pennies for a second origin 20. Maybe a head this time. But probably a second combo... I’d hate for them to disappear/get discontinued and not be able to find another.
     
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  16. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Get the 50c. Thank me later.

    That was my reasoning in picking up a 20c this week. If Marshall discontinues I’d be really upset. I had been pondering and your thread pushed me over the edge.

    The 50 can kind of be scaled down for the rehearsal room but I’d rather run the 20 more open. And we play some really small rooms.

    All of this assumes bars and bands will still be a thing after this mess.
     
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  17. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    I think that once someone realizes what the Origin is, particularly the 20, then they should have a good idea of whether or not it's for them.

    For me, I'm looking for something that's like a lower-powered head version of maybe a slightly more aggressive Bassman (5F6-A). I have a bunch of different flavors of BF/SF Fenders, and I've got a few amps that are ~40 watts or more, but have really wanted something that still stays mostly clean, but has all the mids and such that the BF/SF Fenders lack. And I wanted something really no more than 30 watts, max.

    ...I really was putting off either getting a newer Peavey Classic 20 head, or trying to find the right host amp that was like a DR or PR, and reworking it for more mids, less negative feedback, didn't need 'verb or trem, and really wanted it as a head.

    I have a super heavily reworked AB165 Bassman that simply kills for clean-into-some-breakup, but it only sounds righteous at ear-deafening volumes. I reworked the bass input to be more Brit-like, and it's a nice compromise, but just brutally loud.

    I expect the Origin 20 to possibly really be the amp I've been looking for, that ticks all of the right boxes, for my needs.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  18. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    One issue with the Origins (not an issue for me but I could see it being an issue for some applications).

    If your reference point is "Fender" broadly speaking, Marshalls can be quite bright, sharp and pointy, almost regardless of the model (I've never really tried the early ones).

    To me, a lot of that piercing/pokey quality goes away:
    (1) in a mix
    (2) when level and drive are both up quite high. there is a point where they warm up, and that point is high on those dials. But they always retain that sharpness/pokiness/piercing quality. On the flipside, that is why they are so great in a mix - they sit really, really well, in the guitar space, without excess volume. I find with BF/SF Fenders I often need a pedal and/or excess volume to hear myself.

    I suspect this phenomenon is why lots of people say lots of Marshall's suck. If you are playing alone at reasonable volumes - they kinda do.
     
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  19. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah, I have a Marshall'ish semi-scratchbuild, and I rarely ever play it at home. And that's after heavily modifying it to remove that piercing sort of 'jagged buzz thing,' and I honestly couldn't even imagine playing a lower-wattage plexi'ish thing at home, either.

    ...The closest I've come to having something snarly and aggressive like that work at home, or probably more of a studio-type setting, is with my scratchbuild that is loosely based off a Trainwreck Express. But even with that, I added a hi-cut like the Voxes have, and couldn't imagine running it wide open, unless I was using it at a gig.

    Also - I'd bet that if someone heard a lot of their favorite guitar tracks using Marshalls with them isolated out, it would probably sound buzzy and possibly puny. Really the only exception to that, that I can think of off the top of my head, would be Angus Young's rhythm stuff on H.T.H. But even there, we're only hearing what's been filtered through the recording process. If we were in the studio when it was being cut, it might have sounded bright/sharp/jagged/whatever.

    ...This also most likely really articulates why I loathe 'plexi pedals' - bright scratchy things.
     
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  20. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It's funny. We just finished recording our latest full length (11 tracks) right before all the safe at home orders went in place. I recorded the whole thing on the studio's 73 SFDR cranked and their vertical input JCM800 212 cranked. Used my guitar volume to set breakup level like I would live.

    The SFDR sounded really nice in my phones - a bit more trebly than I would set it up in a mix, and a bit more raspy. The JCM sounded nice to, but SUPER aggressive, piercing and almost scratchy. We basically double tracked everything. Rhythm, leads. I put myself in his hands.

    We got the mixed (but not mastered tracks) back and the whole record sounds amazing, but my guitar in particular, the guys can't stop raving about the sound. Bright but full and just beautiful, slightly overdriven to medium overdriven tones. Just shows to go ya.
     
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