Marshall JMP 2203 vs Fender Supersonic

[mattdrink73]

Hi all,
I'm currently torn between buying a Late 70's Marshall JMP 2203/4 master volume head, and a Fender super sonic 60.
They're about the same sort of price (£750 ish) which is my max.
I'm playing through a stock Marshall 1960a.

I mainly play alternative rock (Green day, Biffy clyro, The Strokes etc), the odd bit of Rise Against and similar, and occasionally a bit of Pink Floyd and some Zep. But I'm after it to be my main live rig, so it'll mainly be an alternative rock sound I'm after.

My main guitars are a Les Paul Junior, a Jazzmaster with a SD Quarter Pounder, and a Tele with Hot rails.

It's unfortunately not possible for me to play the JMP as no shops have any, though I know what they sound like, but I played the Fender yesterday in a shop after not even intending to look at them and now I'm torn.

Any opinions appreciated!
Cheers, Matt

 

[Wally]

The Marshall would be my choice.....without a doubt. I don't know if you ever see a Pro Sonic over there, but I would take that over the Marshall...especially if you are looking for tube gain. A Pro Sonic side by side with a SuperSonic reveals a lot about the difference is sonics, and a look inside shows the difference in build quality. A Pro Sonic is built in the manner of a Marshall JMP, which is a very well built PCB amp.

 

[mattdrink73]

Cheers dude!
As far as I know we don't get Pro sonic's over here. There's one on eBay UK at the moment that's a US import for £800 which doesn't seem too bad, are they similar in sound to a super sonic?

 

[Wally]

Matt, for my money and to my ear...side by side comparison...the Pro Sonic walks all over a Super Sonic....and its build quality is much higher.
That 2203 or 2204 is likely to be much more than 800 pounds, right? The new Super Sonic will be more than that.
The Pro Sonic is closer to the JMP Marshalls....and earlier...in that it has some basic circuitry that is evolved from the 5F6A Bassman.
A Pro Sonic can mimic a 5F6A/Marshall Bluesbreaker sound, it can go old school tweed in the cathode biased mode, and the solid state rectifier mode gets into that second generation of Marshalls. The gain available in the Pro Sonic is beyond the gain possibilities of the 2203/2204.....but that gain can be tamed and yield those Marshall MV sonics, ime. Lot of amp....if Fender were to build the Pro Sonic today in the way that it was built in 1996-2002, it would be at least twice the price of a SuperSonic, imho. IF that Pro Sonic were 1200 pounds sterling, I still think it would be a bargain.
This picture shows the construction. Just as in the first Marshall PCb amps introduced in 1973...the JMP's...the tube sockets and all front panel pots, jacks and switches are chassis mounted and hardwired to the PCb. This is, imho, the best built amp Fender has built since the handwired regular production stopped in 1985 except for the Custom Shop handwired amps.
The BF/SF Reissues are not built this well.....and the price of building these amps is what killed production. They were $1695 USD at the end of their production in 2002....and that was still a bargain compared to what the BF Reissues and the CVR were costing Fender to produce, imho.
IF you get a chance to try one out, make sure that you come to understand the 3 options on the back panel. Note: The heads do not have reverb and have some tone changes to yield less low end than does the combo amp. The heads do have options on the back panel for 3 impedances from the OT. The combo has the same OT, but it is hardwired for 16 ohms.

 

[Wally]

Okay...I missed that 750 pound limit... A vintage 2203 or 2204 for that price? hmmm....nice price IF it has fresh electrolytics and service. IF not, get ready to spend soem money on a recap...it will need it even if you think it sounds good.....I have heard the difference too many tiems to think otherwise.
A SuperSonic at that price...not for me. I keep holding my money for the Pro Sonic.

 

[mattdrink73]

Thanks a lot, I've put the links to the two heads below.

The fender looks nice, though I don't know enough about them to know how it differs from a stock one.

The Marshalls seem to be a lot more common than the Pro sonic's over here. I've been researching and I can't find if they were ever available in the UK, so that one may be very rare!



(link removed)

(link removed)

 

[PurpleStrat]

One thing to consider is how much gain you really need and how loud can you turn up. The Fender will have much more gain available and can do it at lower volume but a cranked 2203 is tone bliss!

Another is do you need channel switching. Have you considered a newer Marshall?

 

[Tommy Biggs]

I've got a supersonic22 and a JCM800 2204, I like the 22, but I love the 2204. The Marshall is a much better sounding amp for your genres IMO. the JCM is different from the MV JMP but the MV model is closer than the old NMVs.

The SS22 is a nice little amp, but is more of a low gain/gritty + clean amp. The 22 sounds great through my old 1960A, but the Marshall is much more dynamic and aggressive. The low input does a great clean on the Marshall, but it isn't switchable of course.

I would defer to Wally on build - (I'm glad for all the education he's offering on the ProSonic), he also makes a point to budget for potential service on the JMP.

I have not had issues with my SS22 (combo) but I don't really gig it, or haul it around much. Finally over here the SS has about 1/2 to 1/3 of the price or value of a vintage JMP head.

I wouldn't be conflicted at all. Go with your original thought.

 

[JD0x0]

FWIW, Ceriatone makes a hand wired JCM800 clone for $1150USD (£735) before shipping. Hand wired reliability, and no tired old caps or electronic components to worry about.

 

[mattdrink73]

Thanks for all your help guys!

I don't need channel switching or anything, and I have looked into Ceriatone but to get a head shipped here costs about £200, and I just can't justify it.

 

[mattdrink73]

And yeah the main reason I'm after one of the late JMP's is the master volume yet still sounding as close as possible to a plexi. I think either one will sound awesome, it's just which will suit me better. My band do some more indie sort of cribs/strokes stuff too, so I'm not too sure how well a Marshall would suit that.

 

[rze99]

I have a 78 Marshall MV50 Mk11.
For your music it is perfect.
I had mine serviced and tweaked in various ways only he knows (by Greg at GuitarAid in London) to make it sound a bit more like the JTM45 and it's a killer for crunch and dirt, esp with a P90. They seem to be have got really pricey those old heads.

I also have a DRRI and that sounds incredible and great for Alt when over 5 or 6.

Also to consider, a VOXAC30 (wiht poss attenuator) again, perfect witha P90 for crunch and slice.

 

[Tele Jr]

I'm in agreement on the Prosonic build quality. Carling switches, Switchcraft jacks, same upgraded pots as used on the Zinky CS pieces, same upgraded multi ply birch cabinet material used on the Zinky CS cabs. The 3 way recto switch is another spendy component of the bill of materials, and the cathode bias mode is a brilliant addition by Bruce to the design.

Special speakers in the combo too, which would have raised cost above the same old cheap reissues used in other high end Fender amps. Bruce voiced the combo to match these, with an extremely warm and lush low end.

The head and combo versions of the Prosonic are the same basic amp but also have some notable differences. The head version does not have all of the gain of the combo and is overall cleaner sounding, bottom voice is more normal and imho more usable with other cabs. Although they are quite different sounding amps, the overall tonal voicing as far as where I would set the controls on the Prosonic and Tone Master heads is almost identical, that is they sound like they have the same balance top to bottom.

So comparing the Prosonic head vs combo, I would definitely say the combo is beefy and bottom heavy rather than calling the head thin. The head is bright and clean but also fat and warm. The combo is the warmest lushest bottom sounding amp I have ever found. If you use that standard every freaking other amp in the world is thin. I have problems using the combo as a head with my 2x12 v30 cabs because of the extra heavy eq on the bottom.

Per Bruce, they are designed for different venues. The combo is designed to be used in smaller spaces at reasonable volume levels. The 2x10 config and heavy bottom make that clear, duly notable any tube amp with that much bottom will have issues when fully cranked. The head was designed more for bigger rooms with v30 cabs and cranked up more if needed. The impedance switch on the head does give it another order of magnitude of tone shaping options. I would save up for a Prosonic.

 

[Wally]

Matt, the seller's description of what the Pro Sonic does is not in line withwhat is going on. A Boogie MKI-V amp for instance is based on the AB763 preamp topography...as is the Super Sonic to a large extent, while the Pro Sonic has its heritage in the 5F6A Bassman world...from which the Marshalls evolved. big differences there...

For instance, as in those Marshalls from the JCM era on back, you can run those tone controls wherever you wish from low to high at any volume setting in the Pro Sonic. That cannot be done in the aB763 circuit....and therefore that cannot be done in the MK Boogies or the Super Sonic either when pushing preamp gain without incurring over-distortion in the preamp, ime. Boogie manuals for the MK amps give guidance on this aspect of the amp.
So, the seller is mistaken to describe the PRo Sonic as a Boogie type. It does do high gain...but it does it a bit differently than does a MK Boogie, ime.
the difference in topography is that the 5F6A and the Marshalls that took their cues from that BAssman have two gain stages prior to the tone stack while the AB763 circuit has a gain/tone stack/gain structure....and those circuits act very differently. IF you are going for the sounds that made the tweed BAssman and Marshalls what they are...go for the Marshall or the Pro Sonic. And the Pro Sonic has perhaps all of the gain in the tube domain that one could use.....in the Gain mode, there are 4 tube gain stages and then there is that Gain 2, which is in effect a midrange boost circuit. Lots of gain if you want it. But....one can run Gain 1 down low with the MV up higher and get into that Marshall crunch zone. Plus, the PRo Sonic goes where those MV Marshalls cannot go, ime.

 

[Tele Jr]

I've never heard of anybody saying the Prosonic sounded anything like a tweed bassman or a Marshall. I have always thought of it as a variation of Fender blackface. I have always thought of the Tone Master as having more of a tweedy vibe.

I'm not talking about similarities in the schematics, I'm talking about what it actually sounds like.

 

[Tle4]

JMP 2203 without hesitating for me. The Jmp, a good overdrive pedal and the volume control on the guitar and I could gig it all night long

 

[mattdrink73]

Thanks guys!
I'm looking to get 2 amps and I currently have an Orange dual terror head, so I'm weighing up my options.
I could:

Get a PS/SS, sell the Orange and get a Jcm900 or something in that price range.

Or

Get a MV 2203, sell the Orange and get something fender based in the £400 range.

Though I am thinking about keeping my Orange as it sounds awesome and I'm not sure how it would compare to a JCM900 or something similar.

 

[kookaburra]

The JMP for sure. It's tone is rock all the way through, and I've found they can mellow out decently also if you play around a bit. For your tunes, it will be excellent.

I'd skip the 900, not even close in terms of good basic Marshall rock tone when set against the JMP. (I've played both).

 

[bparnell57]

I happen to be a Prosonic advocate. It'll out do any Marshall at "two" channel work in my eyes.

 

[mattdrink73]

Unfortunately a Pro sonic is going to be pretty hard to get hold of over here, so it's a Supersonic that'll be more likely, I played one recently and really liked it though, is there a huge amount of difference?