Marshall 1974X vs. Origin vs. DSL40CR

[stantheman]

I had the Ceriatone 1974X Combo in Red Levant with the Soldano Mod - (TMB)?
Anyways I sold it because of the bankruptcy.
Regardless it weighed out too heavy.

The Tone - to die for. With an '86 Les Paul Standard straight in - no pedals - nuthin'.
Funny...I never did play it through a Delay...I'm sure it would have been decent though.
Loud?...OMG...Twin Territory...but with HAIR.
Reliability? Perfect...Nik build it - what else can Ya say.

 

[Axis29]

I am afraid I don't have any experience with the 1974x or any 18 Watt Marshalls.

I am also mostly a Fender guy, but I went down a bit of a Marshall research path over the last few years trying to understand model numbers and such. Nothing too serious, I just didn't want to sound like a total idiot amongst Marshall folks. So, now I sound like a neophyte, and it's okay.

Anyway... I play Blues, mostly West Coast and Chicago type stuff. High gain is not my goal. Nor is Van Halen tone, or anything even remotely heavier. Maybe some ZZ Top from time to time, but early stuff... Ya know? Not a rocker.

I had been looking at finding an 18 watter to play and watched a go-zillion Youtube videos. I dunno that I could pick one out of the crowd of overdriven amps, to be honest. But, when Marshall announced the new Origin amps I was kind of excited... an affordable JTM45/Plexi sounding amp? yes, please, take my money.

I tried them and instantly fell in love. Now, I have a little grab and go combo (the 20C) that gets a nice warm throaty clean that can get pushed into fun overdrive, thats warm, vintage sounding and a bit smooth. There are a ton of features that Marshall built into this little amp that truly make it perfect for me. It's not overly gainy, it sounds vintage and that works for me.

I paid close attention to the Origin vs. DSL threads and demos and decided I really liked the Origin better. It's better for my sound. Not as modern sounding, not as heavy sounding, more gain than I would ever use.

So, for me, the Origin was the clear winner. Affordable, vintage tone, relatively light weight, the right wattage for grab and go jamming, direct out, power scaling... But, really, it sounded right when I demo'd it.

The one thing I see with Marshall's development over the years, as opposed to Fender's... a progression, a clear progression to gainier and gainier amps. While Fender was working for louder and cleaner, Marshall was working for louder and dirty. So, a JTM45 is not as gainy as the later Plexis. The JMP's less gainy than the JCM800. The JCM900s add even more dirty, etc, etc. Then, as is the case with so many companies today, when they add all the reissues and special editions and signature models, any semblance of order goes straight into the crapper. LOL . It's still comnfusing, with model numbers... It's like talking Gretsch guitars!

 

[Telecasterless]

I am afraid I don't have any experience with the 1974x or any 18 Watt Marshalls.

I am also mostly a Fender guy, but I went down a bit of a Marshall research path over the last few years trying to understand model numbers and such. Nothing too serious, I just didn't want to sound like a total idiot amongst Marshall folks. So, now I sound like a neophyte, and it's okay.

Anyway... I play Blues, mostly West Coast and Chicago type stuff. High gain is not my goal. Nor is Van Halen tone, or anything even remotely heavier. Maybe some ZZ Top from time to time, but early stuff... Ya know? Not a rocker.

I had been looking at finding an 18 watter to play and watched a go-zillion Youtube videos. I dunno that I could pick one out of the crowd of overdriven amps, to be honest. But, when Marshall announced the new Origin amps I was kind of excited... an affordable JTM45/Plexi sounding amp? yes, please, take my money.

I tried them and instantly fell in love. Now, I have a little grab and go combo (the 20C) that gets a nice warm throaty clean that can get pushed into fun overdrive, thats warm, vintage sounding and a bit smooth. There are a ton of features that Marshall built into this little amp that truly make it perfect for me. It's not overly gainy, it sounds vintage and that works for me.

I paid close attention to the Origin vs. DSL threads and demos and decided I really liked the Origin better. It's better for my sound. Not as modern sounding, not as heavy sounding, more gain than I would ever use.

So, for me, the Origin was the clear winner. Affordable, vintage tone, relatively light weight, the right wattage for grab and go jamming, direct out, power scaling... But, really, it sounded right when I demo'd it.

The one thing I see with Marshall's development over the years, as opposed to Fender's... a progression, a clear progression to gainier and gainier amps. While Fender was working for louder and cleaner, Marshall was working for louder and dirty. So, a JTM45 is not as gainy as the later Plexis. The JMP's less gainy than the JCM800. The JCM900s add even more dirty, etc, etc. Then, as is the case with so many companies today, when they add all the reissues and special editions and signature models, any semblance of order goes straight into the crapper. LOL . It's still comnfusing, with model numbers... It's like talking Gretsch guitars!

That's helpful, thank you for the feedback. I think it's back to the drawing board for me, but I will look at the Origin. What you described sounds sort of like what I am going for...vintage tone, more overdrive/dirt on tap (than standard Fender), if needed, and not in a stack or head configuration for easy grab and go jamming.

My only issue with the 20 is not sure about a 10" speaker. I like a 12" typically or maybe two 10s. Does it seem boxy at all? I have an AC10 that I enjoy but I would still prefer it not be a 10".

Is this the guy you have?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...rigin-ori20c-20-watt-1x10-inch-tube-combo-amp

 

[Telecasterless]

I am afraid I don't have any experience with the 1974x or any 18 Watt Marshalls.

I am also mostly a Fender guy, but I went down a bit of a Marshall research path over the last few years trying to understand model numbers and such. Nothing too serious, I just didn't want to sound like a total idiot amongst Marshall folks. So, now I sound like a neophyte, and it's okay.

Anyway... I play Blues, mostly West Coast and Chicago type stuff. High gain is not my goal. Nor is Van Halen tone, or anything even remotely heavier. Maybe some ZZ Top from time to time, but early stuff... Ya know? Not a rocker.

I had been looking at finding an 18 watter to play and watched a go-zillion Youtube videos. I dunno that I could pick one out of the crowd of overdriven amps, to be honest. But, when Marshall announced the new Origin amps I was kind of excited... an affordable JTM45/Plexi sounding amp? yes, please, take my money.

I tried them and instantly fell in love. Now, I have a little grab and go combo (the 20C) that gets a nice warm throaty clean that can get pushed into fun overdrive, thats warm, vintage sounding and a bit smooth. There are a ton of features that Marshall built into this little amp that truly make it perfect for me. It's not overly gainy, it sounds vintage and that works for me.

I paid close attention to the Origin vs. DSL threads and demos and decided I really liked the Origin better. It's better for my sound. Not as modern sounding, not as heavy sounding, more gain than I would ever use.

So, for me, the Origin was the clear winner. Affordable, vintage tone, relatively light weight, the right wattage for grab and go jamming, direct out, power scaling... But, really, it sounded right when I demo'd it.

The one thing I see with Marshall's development over the years, as opposed to Fender's... a progression, a clear progression to gainier and gainier amps. While Fender was working for louder and cleaner, Marshall was working for louder and dirty. So, a JTM45 is not as gainy as the later Plexis. The JMP's less gainy than the JCM800. The JCM900s add even more dirty, etc, etc. Then, as is the case with so many companies today, when they add all the reissues and special editions and signature models, any semblance of order goes straight into the crapper. LOL . It's still comnfusing, with model numbers... It's like talking Gretsch guitars!

Also, how quiet is the amp? My Fenders are quiet (love that!), my vox is hissy, I live with that. I get that master amps will be noisier, as it seems are most modern, PCB amps, but what is your experience with this amp's ambient noise? And then with 60 cycle on top of that?

 

[bftfender]

had 6 marshalls & 5 cabs out today ..headed to studio for song soon & this a ritual before each song..dont care what guitar or amp gets used to get the job done...after all this..jmp50 into 1960bv cab with jcm era celestion gt75 & earliest edition Vintage(65ish acting) in X pattern could get it done for me if i had to only have 1 amp in life..can go lo low gain with a treble/norm blend or hit decent non detuned metal and everything between..SG-LP-Strat all do their thing in it..hendrix,to JP to Ac/Dc to country with so much picking dynamics..soon as you get into more modern pre gain amps..some attack & note bloom does not happen as natural..am not a strat player but my gosh it does what all those things you have heard in the past..it nails em..strait in use vol & tone knobs to suit. Mine has trainwreck3 ppimv with just brings down the sound, so you set on full watts and bring down vol & adjust tone knobs to retain..what is wild for me..is the ppimv adds a slight gain compress which at about 25 watts is so nasty i can then boost it to Slayer-metallica type deep crunch or back off and cop those leads tones of 80's..then turn knobs and do the blues so easy..only drawback & a plus for me is it wont pristine clean. Its a rock machine that can double up as an incredible blues amp..now you want this and that pristine clean..Friedman

 

[Axis29]

That's helpful, thank you for the feedback. I think it's back to the drawing board for me, but I will look at the Origin. What you described sounds sort of like what I am going for...vintage tone, more overdrive/dirt on tap (than standard Fender), if needed, and not in a stack or head configuration for easy grab and go jamming.

My only issue with the 20 is not sure about a 10" speaker. I like a 12" typically or maybe two 10s. Does it seem boxy at all? I have an AC10 that I enjoy but I would still prefer it not be a 10".

Is this the guy you have?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...rigin-ori20c-20-watt-1x10-inch-tube-combo-amp

Yes, that's the amp I have.

The 10" actually sounds great. I have no issues with it. I am usually a multiple speaker guy, 2x12, 2x10, 4x10. The single 10 doesn't fill a room the way my Bassman does. But, it does not seem as directional as a 12" can be. It has plenty of bass on tap, no complaints whatsoever about tone!

As for boxy? Ugh, that's my biggest complaint with a lot of single speaker amps. I've never gotten along with Blues Jrs for this reason (amongst a few others, but that's not what we're talking about). The Origin does not sound even remotely boxy! I think the box is big enough for the single 10". I am not 100% sure it's big enough for a 12"... Maybe? I mean, my 5e3 can sound slightly boxy at times, but not the same as a BJR, and they are about the same size. So, I dunno? Maybe it's what the BJR vs. my 5e3 boxes are made of? But, the Marshall mdf cabinet sounds great with the 10".

I know some guys complain about the V-type speaker. But, honestly, I have no complaints. I actually like it a lot. I think it's a great match for this amp. It isn't as clanky or has as much kerrang as other Celestion speakers... So, it gets a little bit less of that upper mid metallic thing going on. But, it works really well for my sound and fits in with my rig really well.

I have contemplated building a new cabinet for it, a little bigger, to house a Creamback 65 I have... But, honestly, it doesn't bother me remotely enough to put this as a top priority project. It would be more a fun project to see what it sounded like and whether I could build a Marshall style cabinet. Again, I am not in any way unhappy with the 10" stock speaker.

Also, how quiet is the amp? My Fenders are quiet (love that!), my vox is hissy, I live with that. I get that master amps will be noisier, as it seems are most modern, PCB amps, but what is your experience with this amp's ambient noise? And then with 60 cycle on top of that?

How loud or how quiet? This is a tough one for me. I tend to play pretty clean... and I push the front end slightly with my reverb pedal (CB Topanga). So, there's always a little bit of a hint of hair. But, I rarely push it even to ZZ Top kinda levels of gain. So, for me, this amp is perfect. It can get hairy at home levels, but it is not gonna get ACDC stuff at TV volumes... Even in 1/2 watt mode. In half watt mode, the tone gets a touch thinner, less bass and lower mids, for sure. But, with the tilt knob moving towards the darker side, you can compensated for a lot of this. In the 3 watt mode, you can get a really nice, warm lush clean with the aforementioned hint of hair... In a small jam situation without a heavy handed drummer 3 watt mode can be loud enough. But, it could also be too loud at home to get the (relatively) heavier overdrives the amp is capable of. IOW, you cannot get Van Halen levels of gain at home and keep the baby sleeping. LOL

I have not noticed any hiss. 60 cycle is almost non-existent with my normal set up. Again, not a high gain user... I do sue single coils 85% of the time (if not more). So, I am a study in fighting 60 cycle hum. But, I have not had any bad experiences so far with the Marshall.

 

[Nick Fanis]

Does anyone have any experience with the 1974x? Why is that amp so expensive? I know it is hand wired, but what about the tone?

Best amp ever.
Especially for CLEAN tele tones. And this coming from someone who has owned the whole gamut of BF and Tweed Vintage Fenders .
Substituting the driver with a 12AT7 is the only mod I did in order for the amp to sound a bit tighter and cleaner.
They will burry me with mine.

 

[Telecasterless]

Yes, that's the amp I have.

The 10" actually sounds great. I have no issues with it. I am usually a multiple speaker guy, 2x12, 2x10, 4x10. The single 10 doesn't fill a room the way my Bassman does. But, it does not seem as directional as a 12" can be. It has plenty of bass on tap, no complaints whatsoever about tone!

As for boxy? Ugh, that's my biggest complaint with a lot of single speaker amps. I've never gotten along with Blues Jrs for this reason (amongst a few others, but that's not what we're talking about). The Origin does not sound even remotely boxy! I think the box is big enough for the single 10". I am not 100% sure it's big enough for a 12"... Maybe? I mean, my 5e3 can sound slightly boxy at times, but not the same as a BJR, and they are about the same size. So, I dunno? Maybe it's what the BJR vs. my 5e3 boxes are made of? But, the Marshall mdf cabinet sounds great with the 10".

I know some guys complain about the V-type speaker. But, honestly, I have no complaints. I actually like it a lot. I think it's a great match for this amp. It isn't as clanky or has as much kerrang as other Celestion speakers... So, it gets a little bit less of that upper mid metallic thing going on. But, it works really well for my sound and fits in with my rig really well.

I have contemplated building a new cabinet for it, a little bigger, to house a Creamback 65 I have... But, honestly, it doesn't bother me remotely enough to put this as a top priority project. It would be more a fun project to see what it sounded like and whether I could build a Marshall style cabinet. Again, I am not in any way unhappy with the 10" stock speaker.




How loud or how quiet? This is a tough one for me. I tend to play pretty clean... and I push the front end slightly with my reverb pedal (CB Topanga). So, there's always a little bit of a hint of hair. But, I rarely push it even to ZZ Top kinda levels of gain. So, for me, this amp is perfect. It can get hairy at home levels, but it is not gonna get ACDC stuff at TV volumes... Even in 1/2 watt mode. In half watt mode, the tone gets a touch thinner, less bass and lower mids, for sure. But, with the tilt knob moving towards the darker side, you can compensated for a lot of this. In the 3 watt mode, you can get a really nice, warm lush clean with the aforementioned hint of hair... In a small jam situation without a heavy handed drummer 3 watt mode can be loud enough. But, it could also be too loud at home to get the (relatively) heavier overdrives the amp is capable of. IOW, you cannot get Van Halen levels of gain at home and keep the baby sleeping. LOL

I have not noticed any hiss. 60 cycle is almost non-existent with my normal set up. Again, not a high gain user... I do sue single coils 85% of the time (if not more). So, I am a study in fighting 60 cycle hum. But, I have not had any bad experiences so far with the Marshall.

Thanks for detail, good to hear.

A lot of reviews say that it is lacking in bass (like apparently a lot of Marshalls?) but you seem plenty satisfied with the bass.

By noise I was referring to amp noise, but sounds like you don't find it hissy. I am curious how you have dealt with your 60 cycle hum. I just bought a Joyo noise killer and I am not a fan; it cuts in and out, and when a note sustains, it kills it after a bit. Not cool. How do you deal with this with your single coils?

 

[Nick Fanis]

A lot of reviews say that it is lacking in bass

What is this crazy obsession with bass?
Guitar lives in the MIDS ,who needs bass frequencies in guitar (except bass-less bands)?

 

[bftfender]

What is this crazy obsession with bass?
Guitar lives in the MIDS ,who needs bass except bass-less bands?

i recently had to re EQ everything..was playing at home for 6 months since last time in studio...setting up i did my first scratch track last week..my eq had gotten so bass heavy ..like i was a band all in one on my guitar..play a plexi and it already sits where i need but i was dialing in way too much bottom..i laid bass track down..the backed out first guitar & re did with a proper guitar setting..right in top of the bass..the mix clears up..a good guitar setting can be brutal for home playing at times tho..it will pierce ..but that it was it does and why V30's kill it in studio & live work..you are where you belong in a music mix..at home let it rip you can get away with it

 

[Telecasterless]

What is this crazy obsession with bass?
Guitar lives in the MIDS ,who needs bass frequencies in guitar (except bass-less bands)?

I'm not sure if it is an obsession in the marketplace or not, I don't even know what a "bass-less" amp sounds like, but I do know that I like the sound of my Fender amps, and supposedly they are mid-scooped, which I assume means more bass and treble frequencies come through.

I just read people complaining about lack of bass in Marshalls. I don't know what that means, so I am trying to get a gauge of that here.

 

[bftfender]

I'm not sure if it is an obsession in the marketplace or not, I don't even know what a "bass-less" amp sounds like, but I do know that I like the sound of my Fender amps, and supposedly they are mid-scooped, which I assume means more bass and treble frequencies come through.

I just read people complaining about lack of bass in Marshalls. I don't know what that means, so I am trying to get a gauge of that here.

never heard that ever , i do know marshall filled in the missing mid of fender and we have rock-hard rock born to us

 

[Telecasterless]

What is this crazy obsession with bass?
Guitar lives in the MIDS ,who needs bass frequencies in guitar (except bass-less bands)?

I think this kind of comment from BTFender is the concern:

..a good guitar setting can be brutal for home playing at times tho..it will pierce

If I play at home mostly, and maybe jam with a few others, I might not enjoy "piercing" sound. I am not recording, so this is the kind of thing I am curious about.

 

[MilwMark]

As with everything, you’ll need to try one.

The 1974x really isn’t a classic “Marshall” sound to me. It’s a nice sound.

The DSL (my take) are aimed more at the later/gainer Marshall sounds.

The Origin to me is actually a bit like a low gain Plexi with the ability to do normal Plexi gain ranges with the gain boost engaged.

Whether you like that? Hard to say. Has plenty of bass/fullness for me, but not the big warm wave of a Fender Twin. When I listen to it at home or even on stage, it can tend towards “thin” but when I hear it in the mix, perfect and full. If you listen to my clips above, that’s what it sounds like in a mix.

Surprisingly to me, the 20 (with its 10” speaker) sounds more full than the 50 (with its 12” speaker) I don’t know why they went V Type in the 20 but not in the 50.

@Axis29 - did you happen to try both the 20 and the 50 and have a similar impression? I never like single 10 combos but I do like the Origin 20.

 

[bftfender]

I think this kind of comment from BTFender is the concern:



If I play at home mostly, and maybe jam with a few others, I might not enjoy "piercing" sound. I am not recording, so this is the kind of thing I am curious about.

whats your concern? you want to know what Marshalls.... we play every week ? 6 are in my house 7 at the studio.i can pull out the head and cab and actually listen for what everybody is theorizing over
jtm45
1959slp
1987
jmp50
Bluesbreaker Combo 2x12
Class 5
6100
jcm800 2204
jcm800 vertical input
jcm900 DR
jcm900 SLX
jcm900 mkiii
Jcm2000 DSl50
DSL100h
DSL40cr
greenback-3 dif kinds.gt75-v30-65 creamback-lead80-
curious..piercing...first you say no bass..then you say piercing..how about grab a guitar and play..simply told ya the truth..home playing is bass heavy vs where it really needs to sit in a mix..too much bass...bass is bass players job and you will mud it up with those settings..but for home we tend to set for all around..easy on the ears & and then wonder why it sounds like ass live or with a mic in cab trying to record

 

[Whatizitman]

I'm not sure if it is an obsession in the marketplace or not, I don't even know what a "bass-less" amp sounds like, but I do know that I like the sound of my Fender amps, and supposedly they are mid-scooped, which I assume means more bass and treble frequencies come through.

I just read people complaining about lack of bass in Marshalls. I don't know what that means, so I am trying to get a gauge of that here.

IMO the folks who complain most about that are home players. Tube amps (marshalls in particular) need to be turned up to sound full. Low wattage combos at bedroom volumes are gonna sound thin, trebly and/or boxy. Marshall high gain channels are also very compressed and have low cut filters to keep muddiness down. It makes the drive channels sound really thin at low volumes.

 

[bftfender]

IMO the folks who complain most about that are home players. Tube amps (marshalls in particular) need to be turned up to sound full. Low wattage combos at bedroom volumes are gonna sound thin, trebly and/or boxy. Marshall high gain channels are also very compressed and have low cut filters to keep muddiness down. It makes the drive channels sound really thin at low volumes.

that was good !!

 

[Telecasterless]

IMO the folks who complain most about that are home players. Tube amps (marshalls in particular) need to be turned up to sound full. Low wattage combos at bedroom volumes are gonna sound thin, trebly and/or boxy. Marshall high gain channels are also very compressed and have low cut filters to keep muddiness down. It makes the drive channels sound really thin at low volumes.

Well that's good intel.

Do you think that would apply to the small marshall combos like the Origin 20? you would think they would design that amp for bedroom/home/small club players who don't necessary crank it. Particularly given the built in attenuator.

 

[KC]

my experience with the 20 is that it sounds mushy at the low setting, OK in the middle and fairly glorious at gig settings, where it is surprisingly loud. If you put it on high power and dial up the master, there's some great sounds in there -- nice clear rhythm sounds when you back off on the guitar volume, some nice sustain & compression when you dial it up. I've been using an Amp Eleven with it which sounds better to me than the amp boost. If you just swat the front end with a boost, the low end gets kind of loose and flabby -- the Amp Eleven (and the Timmy) are designed to control this with some precision.

long story short, a workable living room amp but a lot more fun when you can crank it.

 

[perttime]

I have the little DSL1 combo. It can get louder than I can use in the apartment.

At the store, I heard the clean channel get "fuller" when I turned it up. That is too loud at home. I turn the gainy channel down until I can go between hairy clean and some crunch by the way I pick. My tone controls have ended up with bass and treble a little past noon, and middle down a little. I put the amp on a chair, or something, when I play. Works for me.

The Origin would probably be more "me" - but I got my Marshall before the Origin series came out.