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Mars Landing in 30ish Days

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by stormsedge, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    If we took that attitude in everything we'd never get anywhere, like just playing 1950s era guitar designs and tube amps. (Oh, ... wait...!)

    A clear purpose is to see what we can learn that we didn't expect about the solar system, comparing planets, etc. You don't know what you don't know. The technology push is worth something, as well. Communications theory was pushed pretty far with the Voyager program, for example. BTW, NASAs budget is 0.48% of the Federal budget, according to Google. That's half a penny for every federal dollar spent.
     
  2. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    Let’s throw stones at the geeks..
     
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  3. OldPup

    OldPup Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    And you ignored my reply.
     
  4. stormsedge

    stormsedge Friend of Leo's

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    This thread has had the longest hang time (I think) of any I've done...I'm feeling the love here ;). I'm gonna stop trying to do thoughtful guitar oriented threads...they do not get the mileage :twisted:.

    I may have a Snickers (made by Mars) today to celebrate my dubious accomplishment :lol::lol:.
     
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  5. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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  6. 1 21 gigawatts

    1 21 gigawatts Tele-Holic

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    I look at aome of the space program missions similar to farm subsidies. While you may not get an immediate benefit for the money spent, not having the resources available when needed is not an option.

    NASA provides jobs to physicists. Without jobs, you stop getting people going into the field and you end up in a situation like the US found itself in pre WW2. Luckily, we were able to import some of the smartest physicists in the world from Germany (which ironically seeded our space program).

    I was a Physics major for a couple years. I switched majors when my advisor told me that the only job available for a physics major was a teacher. This was around the time that defense spending started to dwindle and the space program was in a lull. Without money, there aren't jobs; without jobs, there will be no new Physicists.
     
  7. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    "No bucks, no Buck Rogers"

     
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  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    This is not how research works, nor is it how academia works. They aren't egg heads loafing in the tall grass, they establish a solid research proposal, it's accepted and funded and then that research leads to other research. We don't just give out research grants to "see what we don't know." And NASA was not established to "do stuff in space." If you want to be an effective apologist for them, you ought to know their history and intent.
     
  9. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    I didn't ignore your reply, there was just nothing to respond to. It's the No True Scotsman fallacy. To presume that someone is "against" something because they criticize it is a very limiting way to view the world. It is important to ask the "why" in all areas of scientific inquiry, including the proposal to send another rover to Mars to replace the previous rover. Surely, no one who believes in the power of scientific inquiry would dispute that. ;)

    And if you yourself don't know the answer to that, it's ok. I suspect none of us really do know that answer.
     
  10. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    The new rover has a different, more advanced set of research instruments. The new instruments include ones specifically designed to look for, detect, and verify signs of past and/or current microscopic life.
     
  11. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    Wish we could award you a slab of bacon or something. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  12. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Of course there are detailed research proposals. It's all out there for anyone to read. But with exploratory science you can't presume specific, useful, tangible benefits beforehand. I was trying to point out that it's a bit absurd to demand that up front. And of course this is under oversight of elected reps that control the budget and have oversight.

    The unknown is large, but we will learn something new or confirm other ideas in the process. There's are side benefits as well for rocket tech and keeping a current generation of these types of scientists and engineers engaged rather than losing them to other nations.
     
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  13. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes, you can presume that tangible benefits that could come out of a research or expedition in advance. That's really the whole point of research proposals, they tell you right up front why its important to tackle the project. And NASA is not a WPA program for scientists, it should always be able to stand on its own with respect to the fruits of its labor.

    If you've ever read any good thoughtful criticism of the Space Shuttle Program then you would have some idea of what happens when the funding, oversight and focus of a program becomes inconsistent or sloppy. The Space Shuttle was originally supposed to get us into space on a bi-weekly basis and deliver very very cheap payload costs. It never delivered on either of those promises. I think a big reason for "why" was that they periodically just got lost. Meanwhile, everyone was cheering them on.
     
  14. naveed211

    naveed211 Friend of Leo's

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    The US spends nearly a trillion dollars on far more stupid and destructive things than learning about space. I’d be much happier cutting back on those kinds of activities first.
     
  15. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    That would be a poor justification for turning a blind eye towards our space program.

    Ya know, it's ok if we all just disagree about this. It's probably more healthy as a community to continue to disagree rather than to insist that everyone sings a chorus of "NASA is totes cool and above reproach." Cause it doesn't look like that's gonna happen anytime soon.
     
  16. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    Here's something NASA is doing and so far as "real life" applications go, it involves crystal lattices, something very important to guitar playing.

     
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  17. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've heard that all great amplifiers rely on a crystal lattice of electrons and mojo to work properly. So, yeah ... cool.
     
  18. Texicaster

    Texicaster Friend of Leo's

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    With this attitude I'd never get a new guitar! :D

    One could say...."Yes but you are wasting money on the same thing you have been doing all along, without the expectation of different results. You will have a fresh GUITAR sending back exactly the same data that the old GUITAR was sending back. It doesn't move the ball downfield in any way.....

    :D
     
  19. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah, good point. It's vital for the progress of a civilized society that you get a new guitar. Makes perfect sense when you put it that way ...

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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  20. Wrighty

    Wrighty Friend of Leo's

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    Maybe a GC?
     
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