Mark Agnesi Already Having an Impact at Gibson

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Bones, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    Sentiments like yours are one of the many reasons Gibson is going to continue to fail...

    Someone has to stand up for and champion the dumpster fire that is Gibson.

    Hard job, but I suppose someone's gotta do it... better you than me.


    And you have no point... neither the Nissan or Ford are going to be out of commission because they were driven on a bumpy non pristine road...unlike the Gibson in say a rock n roll environment that is very similar to that road.
     
  2. AxRookie

    AxRookie Tele-Meister

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  3. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    Honestly friend, I couldn't care less if Gibson fails. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in one of the other dozen threads on this subject, I don't buy new Gibsons. I have a pile of Gibsons, only one of them was purchased new many years ago, and that was after a very lengthy and thorough search for one that was perfect to me. I'm a fan of the guitars, not so much the company. I'm not a corporate cheerleader. I just like the guitars that I like. I guess I'm unique in that regard. I like old Marshalls too, but I pretty much despise the company. They disappoint me as a consumer in every way possible. I have a whole bunch of kick ass Marshalls...I haven't bought a single one of them new from a dealer. Neither Gibson or Marshall gets my money, even though I am an unapologetic and happy user of their equipment.


    Lol for real. You can't be serious. Now you're intentionally talking pure unfiltered nonsense. Gibsons don't survive rock and roll environments? Are you really saying that? Do you even think about what you're typing? So Gibsons have not played any live rock and roll over the past 60 years?

    I play my Gibsons in very rock and roll environments, and I have for a very long time. No problems whatsoever. No problems from any Gibson users I know either in this gigantic city of tons of musicians. Our guitars simply aren't exploding into sawdust. I know you want things to be a certain way to fit your bias, but it just doesn't really work that way in reality.

    Also, I saw your furious rant about the topic in another thread. I know you are not an objective person on this issue, so please just accept what I've said or blow me off. Either way is fine. No need to go any further.
     
  4. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    Actually I'm not as bias as you may think...

    And yes Les Paul's have been all over rock n roll stages... even though alot of them are "ghost built"... even the real ones have survived to some extent.

    My point is, there are far too many that have and continue to break on people who dropped a few grand on an instrument, that is unacceptable when it's an easy fix.

    I was really rooting for Curleigh and Gibson until the pull some garbage like this.
     
  5. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    "Dropped" being the key word in that statement. Sure, if you drop a Gibson, it can break. If I drop a $1000 iPhone, it can break. If I drop a baby, it can break. Here's the thing - just don't drop them.

    If you want a guitar that you can drop and kick and mistreat, then get something else. There are plenty out there. No big deal. Fenders are a terrific option if you want something that can fall over. At worst, you can just put a new neck on it since they're all basically just parts guitars.
     
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  6. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    My point is, when there are guitars even set necks or thru necks that can fall over many times without breaking beyond use that cost a fraction of a production model Gibson that is more prone to breakage theres something wrong.

    Especially when it's a low cost or even cheaper way to change the manufacturing process to avoid the issue.

    It hurts sales... and hurts the company and the name.

    Wich is a SHAME.

    That's all I'm saying... why put out something with a known weakpoint that other brands/designs do not have? And charge what they are charging?

    It looks bad.

    If they want to pull out of the death spiral they need to look inward at there problems and weakpoints not outward... and there guitars quality/reliability and durability is a small place to start.
     
  7. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    All valid points, but the reality is a bunch of people just simply don't have any problems with it. Gibson has seemingly always been stranded in damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't territory. If they stay the same, a certain group of people complain. If they dare change anything, the purists complain. For the past five years or so, Gibson has tried some heavy handed ideas and changes to their classic models. People have violently revolted against them for it. Hell, did they sell any guitars in 2015? That had to be a nightmare. Most people that want a Gibson don't want all that crap. They usually want the same stuff they built in the 50s and 60s. That includes the angled headstocks. Good or bad, it's iconic to the brand. I'm not a luthier, so I don't know how to "fix" it. I can only imagine implementing something internal that strengthens the headstock/neck area without altering the look or feel of it. Maybe dowels, or some kind of dovetail joint, I have no idea. I can barely nail two boards together. Hey, maybe they need to use nails!
     
  8. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    They continue trying to cater to demographics that either do not want to stray from the "traditional" way of doing things and then they alienate the vast majority of the entire guitar market by pricing them out.

    Follow that by a few years of bum quality control and certain models that have a reputation for breaking wether it's common or not is irrelevant compared to perception.

    I actually love Gibson, and there history and heritage... but I'm sick of seeing it ran in the ground by greedy suits that don't have a clue what they actually have.

    They could be a dominant force in the industry and could be cultivating a new generation of player... but instead they keep pandering to the "old heads" and keep pricing any new generation out.

    In other words they currently suck.
     
  9. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    There are two types of Les Pauls:

    1) those that have had broken headstocks

    2) those that will

    :lol:

    Hey, it's a *joke* - And I happen to own two of each.

    Gibson has had varying levels of quality over the years - as has Fender and every early "brand" that lasted this long.

    This thread topic is Mark Agnesi's marketing video, not the 75 tangents it's been taken on.

    IMO the video does NOTHING positive for Gibson. Their problem hasn't been quality as much as it's been business distractions via the various "brands" they branched out into, with upper management that didn't understand any of those markets.

    If Agnesi's video is supposed to reinforce the idea that Gibson is going to focus only on the guitar (and related string instrument) business - their historical base - In my view it totally backfires. he may BE sincere but comes across as a scary, egotistical self-appointed know-it all, talking down to customers (and potential ones) as if they know nothing, need an education - and that what he says is gospel. he shall not be argued with or disbelieved, as he is the all-knowing leader of the Gibson Cult.

    All need to gather around him, drink the Kool-aid, and the world shall be right again.

    It is THE most alienating video I have ever seen. And it's not that most of what he says is wrong - it's the whole presentation. He's the wrong guy and the *attitude* presented in the script is completely a "I'm better than you; Gibson is better than you; EVERYTHING you know is wrong!" (think about that LAST phrase for a minute...).

    From what I understand Gibson pulled the plug on this pretty quickly, and only copies are floating around.

    But their marketing catch phrase "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" is insulting to the competition. One of THE most critical rules of basic brand marketing is NEVER insult the competition - talk about your features & benefits, compliment competitors but mention the success of your product (or method) - but not superiority. Ever. ESPECIALLY when you are one of the premium priced brands.

    They just don't seem to get it. And by that I mean a whole pile of things that could be considered "it". Which is sad, because they DO make some excellent guitars.
     
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  10. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    All of that is your perception, and no one's saying you can't feel that way. And it might be the general perception at a very Fender-friendly site like this. But the entire guitar playing world doesn't feel that way. These kinds of PR disasters are far worse than the reputation of headstocks flying off of necks willy nilly. I'd bet most people view a Gibson as a bucket-list type instrument. One day they'll get a Gibson. A lot of people aspire to one day own one. That is the general perception for a lot of people. Whether Gibson guitars have or haven't earned that reputation is subjective. And they have guitars at all of the usual price points. Is a Custom Shop R9 priced out of reach for most people? Yup. But little Johnny n00b shouldn't be buying one of those anyway. He can get into a Studio or some kind of faded Special for Mexican Tele money though. What's the difference? All major brand guitars have models at all price points.

    But again, no one has to buy a Gibson. If they piss you off, make your voice heard by keeping your wallet closes. Lots of options out there.
     
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  11. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    In Mark's video he claims that part of the goal is "to be the most played guitar brand in the world"

    Not gonna happen when the quality isn't there and after petty stunts like the video...

    Followed by the lawsuits, that will absolutely get squashed in court.... if they ever make it there.
     
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  12. DaphneBlue

    DaphneBlue Tele-Holic

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    This lovely break is sent to you all on one purpose: forget about it all and enjoy these beautiful moments.

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  13. rad1

    rad1 Tele-Afflicted

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    I really think it is misguided publicity. Letting everyone know Gibson is back and plans on being king of the hill. Sad really. It has been pretty well established that the guitar body shapes such as the Les Paul, Strat, Tele etc are no longer protected by any regulations. Headstock, maybe.
     
  14. KT89

    KT89 Tele-Meister

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    Honestly I kind of just want to see Gibson go under. You don't get to play with the big dogs just because you used to in the past, and you can't just whine about not making money and chase your tail while waiting for buyouts. The top dogs at Gibson just don't know how to stay afloat in the 21st century and eventually there won't be anyone left to save them. The die hard old men who support the company no matter what won't be around forever and there are other, better players in the luxury guitar market at this point. Can't sell a V? It has to be Dean's fault!

    Just make a guitar worth buying at a price point worth buying at and try to do better marketing. Fender has fantastic marketing. They're all over instagram (it's huge whether you agree with it or not) promoting young artists along with their brand. They have quality guitars under a grand. They don't try to curb-stomp smaller companies, at the very least not publicly. As a young person concerned with the decline of the guitar who wants to see future generations keep playing, Gibson is appealing to a (literally) dying market. It isn't sustainable.

    Honestly I wouldn't care usually. I don't even like Deans, they're tacky IMHO. But they definitely have carved their own niche in the market and Gibson is trying to reach their grubby mitts into someone else's cookie jar because they're too lazy to bake their own.

    Rant over.
     
  15. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    Dude you said exaclty what I was trying to all along!!

    Amen!
     
  16. Electric Warrior

    Electric Warrior Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    I read much of this thread, finally watched the video today. It somehow came off even worse than described. Time to go get out my Heritage.
     
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  17. Orpingtons

    Orpingtons Tele-Meister

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    This is precisely why Gibson almost went down, their attitude sucks.

    They believe that playing a Gibson is some sort of privilege, a favor they do to players, when in reality it's exactly the other way around. I really hate it when a guitar company starts the threats and the attitude. Fender lost that court battle with the shape of their bodies and they're doing just fine, there's much more to the brand than just a shape.

    Gibson is notorious for their reissues, they've been creating reissues for decades, but they're never the real deal. NEVER. Why is it? They do have all the records and the specs for every single instrument but they make money out of their most famous promise "we'll get it right with the next reissue". In the mean time, people keep on buying and buying instruments based on a false promise.

    I have a suggestion for Gibson. Instead of threatening others and living of false promises, why not go back to the roots and craft a real good instrument at a price musicians can afford. Maybe they forgot that, up until yesterday, they were selling a replica of a Stratocaster, maybe that's their idea of "originality".
     
  18. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

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    Nailed it!
     
  19. Owenmoney

    Owenmoney Tele-Afflicted

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    I thought Gibson was finally on the right track with the traditional series,, 59 LP and 60s LP but they did just trash all the positives with not just the video ,but the lawsuit against Dean. Let’s face it,a lot to us still like Gibson Les Paul guitars. I’ll take a tele or strat over a LP any day but I wouldn’t say no to a decent 59 type LP. I have a 1994 Epiphone LP Standard, so. It’s 25 years old, plays real nice, sounds good, plays better than the Gibson LP Deluxe w the. Mini buckers I had before that. But Gibson hasn’t delivered on the goods for a long time, so the new team comes in, start out well, we are going back to basics, etc. sounds good, every review I’ve read or watched seems like ok, they’re finally on track with what people want, then this crap hits, and you go WTF are they thinking.
    I don’t blame Agnesi yeah he’s a low rung of the ladder tool. Ok , he’s doing what he’s paid for, but the upper management just tossed al the positives right out the window. So, screw them. I still don’t believe LPs are just equipped with self destructing headstocks, but they do definitely have self destructing management !


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  20. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Other than threads on forums or stumbling on a random YouTube video I would never know what Gibson are doing to promote their products. I don't watch promo videos or random speeches by their Salesmen or CEO's.
    I look at pics and specs of their offering if i'm in the market for one of their guitars or I watch a few demo's of a particular model i'm interested in. Then I hunt for the same model in used condition. Most Gibsons I like are way overpriced to consider buying new.

    If you love the look of a 58-59 les paul but don't like paying over inflated prices for one the best option other than building your own is probably finding a nice Tokai, Greco, Burny, Bacchus etc, reworking the top carve and refinishing it with a Gibson headstock mop logo face plate. It's unfortunate that's the best way for the majority of buyers to get a quality playing Les Paul that looks the way you want it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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