Making a 24” scale neck sanity check

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NewTimerJH

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Say I have a 25.5” fretboard already, but I’m looking to make a neck the size of a 24” scale neck, although I don’t care about having as many frets crammed on as a 24” would have. Can I not just cut down the fretboard, and say have a 19 frets or so and still just place my bridge accordingly, 25.5” from the nut?

This is for a theoretical duo sonic build. Trying to use what resources I already have on hand to some extent. My only concern is that this would place the bridge possibly awkwardly far away from its normal position. I’m making the body, and the pickguard, so I’d be able to make it look natural I guess. I’ve never made a fretboard, maybe now’s the time? Trying not to spend more money than I need to here.

Then again I could just make it a 25.5” scale duo, but what fun is that?

Thanks for anyone’s thoughts.
 

AAT65

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If you have a 25.5” scale fretboard without fret markers and you cut the first fret off and put the nut where the first fret used to be — you’ve just made a 24” scale fretboard. (If you’ve already fitted fret markers - then you have more work to do!)

If you want to keep 25.5” scale length, then you need to move the bridge back from the default Duo-Sonic position, and will probably end up with 19 frets as you surmised. I don’t see what’s wrong with that, personally.
 

NewTimerJH

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If you have a 25.5” scale fretboard without fret markers and you cut the first fret off and put the nut where the first fret used to be — you’ve just made a 24” scale fretboard. (If you’ve already fitted fret markers - then you have more work to do!)

If you want to keep 25.5” scale length, then you need to move the bridge back from the default Duo-Sonic position, and will probably end up with 19 frets as you surmised. I don’t see what’s wrong with that, personally.
No fret markers. So I just cut the not slot where the first fret is an it’ll play and intonate? Seems too easy, I love it. Thanks a ton!

I want to try the 24” scale just for fun, so I’ll probably go that route.

Couldn’t find a duo sonic print anywhere, let alone anything with measurements, so I’ll be mathing out everything on paper anyways.

Anyone know if the duo sonic and mustang have the same body shape? I can find mustang blueprints, although with no measurements listed still.
 

guitarbuilder

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I'm pretty sure the first iteration of the duo sonic is not exactly mustang shaped....



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NewTimerJH

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If you build a guitar with the nut 25 1/2” from the bridge, that’s a 25 1/2” scale. By definition.
Couldn’t agree more!
Mustang and Duo-sonic have the same body shape.
Thanks. I’ve never even seen any offset guitar in person in my life, and didn’t know if there were subtle differences easily missed in photos.
Ah I see. So modern mustangs and duos share the same body, but it looks like the original design had a much longer body.

Thanks GB! Good call checking out reverb.

I’ll try to use a mustang body outline for the build.
 

Freeman Keller

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Wacking the first fret off a 25.5 neck gives you one that is a hair over 24, its actually 24.069 (24 1/16). The 12th fret should be at 12.035 from the nut, use that to confirm the scale and double to locate the bridge. You will want to do the normal thing when you locate the bridge - set the saddles all the way forward and put the break point at the uncompensated scale.

I've never built a DuoSonic but I have put together three parts guitars as jagstangs using 24 inch necks and Warmoth bodies. At the request of the guy I was building for I used Kahler bridges rather than the fender style. Fun little guitars

IMG_5073.JPGIMG_5093.JPG
 

NewTimerJH

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Th
Wacking the first fret off a 25.5 neck gives you one that is a hair over 24, its actually 24.069 (24 1/16). The 12th fret should be at 12.035 from the nut, use that to confirm the scale and double to locate the bridge. You will want to do the normal thing when you locate the bridge - set the saddles all the way forward and put the break point at the uncompensated scale.

I've never built a DuoSonic but I have put together three parts guitars as jagstangs using 24 inch necks and Warmoth bodies. At the request of the guy I was building for I used Kahler bridges rather than the fender style. Fun little guitars

View attachment 1248937

Always coming in clutch with the info FK, thanks a ton! Beautiful guitars by the way. Thanks for the photos!
 

AAT65

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Wacking the first fret off a 25.5 neck gives you one that is a hair over 24, its actually 24.069 (24 1/16).
I have never measured a Mustang 24” scale neck, but I have heard that the original Mustang / Duo-Sonic fretboards were cut on the same gangsaw as the Tele / Strat / Jazzmaster necks, just with one or two blades removed. If that’s so then the 24” scale is really 24.069” and the short-lived 22.5” scale is really 22.717”, with the “neater” labels being adopted for marketing purposes.
I do not have any hard evidence if this is true, but it does seem like the sort of practical manufacturing thing that Leo would have done.
 

peterg

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I wondered the same thing when I started building a few cigar box guitars. I have a 25.5” scale notched straightedge that I made and hoped to use it for shorter scales. As others, Freeman Keller and AAT65, have pointed out locating the nut at the first fret of a 25.5” scale fretboard will give you a 24.069” scale.

Here are calculations from the StewMac fret position calculator for comparison of the spacing from fret to fret as well as the link to the site.


BECF225A-DED2-4300-B046-D9906F979D41.png
176BB7B4-372D-46E2-82F7-FC641A35C417.png
 

Monoprice99

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The scale of a neck refers to the spacing for the frets. If it's a 25.5 scale neck, it can have 20 (acoustic), 21 Strats, 22 Strats, 24 Super Strats. A 24 scale neck & the frets are going to be closer together. Just because you shorten the fretboard & eliminate frets, doesn't make a 25.5 scale neck a 24 scale neck, it's just a 25.5 scale neck with fewer frets. And therefore for each fret to intonate properly, the bridge location has to be where it would be for the scale length of the frets.

An example of a 25.5 scale neck with 20 frets are the modern Airline Jetsons & '59 DLX 2P that Eastwood makes. The original Valco Airline guitars have a 25 inch scale neck with 20 frets. Other 25 scale necks with 21/22 frets are the Danelectro, Supro & Silvertone guitars.

 
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crazydave911

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I did think about it. I’ve even thought about picking up a vintage one, they’re quite inexpensive for their age, but I think the 22.5” scale is just a bit too small. I have large hands as it is.
One thing about short scales (I've built a bunch) is the wider the nut the easier to play. The original 22.5" scale had a wider nut than the"normal ".
The nut only went to 1 5/8 with the 24" scale and the few Musicmasters made went there too. One reason the 22.5" scale got a bad name, not the scale but the idiot width of the nut 😉
 

NewTimerJH

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The scale of a neck refers to the spacing for the frets. If it's a 25.5 scale neck, it can have 20 (acoustic), 21 Strats, 22 Strats, 24 Super Strats. A 24 scale neck & the frets are going to be closer together. Just because you shorten the fretboard & eliminate frets, doesn't make a 25.5 scale neck a 24 scale neck, it's just a 25.5 scale neck with fewer frets. And therefore for each fret to intonate properly, the bridge location has to be where it would be for the scale length of the frets.

An example of a 25.5 scale neck with 20 frets are the modern Airline Jetsons & '59 DLX 2P that Eastwood makes. The original Valco Airline guitars have a 25 inch scale neck with 20 frets. Other 25 scale necks with 21/22 frets are the Danelectro, Supro & Silvertone guitars.

This was sort of what I was concerned about. I’ll need to do some digging and decide if I want to attempt a fretboard from scratch, which I haven’t done before, wing it with the truncated 25.5”.

One thing about short scales (I've built a bunch) is the wider the nut the easier to play. The original 22.5" scale had a wider nut than the"normal ".
The nut only went to 1 5/8 with the 24" scale and the few Musicmasters made went there too. One reason the 22.5" scale got a bad name, not the scale but the idiot width of the nut 😉

Great info, thanks Dave!
 

NewTimerJH

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I wondered the same thing when I started building a few cigar box guitars. I have a 25.5” scale notched straightedge that I made and hoped to use it for shorter scales. As others, Freeman Keller and AAT65, have pointed out locating the nut at the first fret of a 25.5” scale fretboard will give you a 24.069” scale.

Here are calculations from the StewMac fret position calculator for comparison of the spacing from fret to fret as well as the link to the site.


View attachment 1249206View attachment 1249207
Hey thanks Peter! Good idea with the fret calculator.
 

pypa

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Scale length can be tricky to get our heads around.

As long as a fretboard is not slotted or trimmed, it’s just a board that can be made into any scale length - even a longer one.

once u select the scale length for that fretboard, it will limit where your bridge is on the body or how many playable frets you have + how long your neck is.

You should definitely draw out our design on a to-scale piece of paper to make sure everything is as you wish it to look and feel.
 

dsutton24

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My first 12 string build started with a Villager neck that somehow lost two frets. It was an eBay purchase, and I got it dirt cheap. It was pretty obvious why once it arrived. I built a 12 string Telemaster with it. The Jazzmaster body has so much room south of the bridge that it didn't look all that odd when I moved the bridge waaaay back to compensate for the shortened neck.

Thanks to the magic of Photobucket I don't seem to have any photos of that guitar. I need to dig it out one day and rectify that.

Well, I do have a picture after all:
 

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