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Low E Intonation problem after switchen to flatwounds

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Fortuuna, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. Fortuuna

    Fortuuna TDPRI Member

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    Ok thanks for the help and advice! Will just bring it into the shop then cause I dont have all the tools.
     
  2. Allan Allan

    Allan Allan Tele-Afflicted

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    STOP

    RED LIGHT

    STOP.

    This reply makes me think you don't know what you're doing and should take a step back. The harmonic will ALWAYS be in tune with the open string.


    Is the string in tune when fretted at the 12th fret?
     
  3. BryMelvin

    BryMelvin Friend of Leo's

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    alternatively just set intonation when FRETTED at 12. Forget the harmonic. Only that open E will be sharp. only a factor occasionally and mute that string or detune slightly in compromise.

    FWIW I ALWAYS tune that string flat slightly so the more often used G note on that string is not slightly sharp.
     
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  4. LetItGrowTone

    LetItGrowTone Tele-Meister

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    @Allan Allan, two posts above, is right.
    (And the above post too.)
     
  5. Fortuuna

    Fortuuna TDPRI Member

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    Well you're right about that :) but when I set intonation in tune to the fretted 12th fret then the open string gets out of tune, so I retune it and then it's just back to how it was
     
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  6. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    nah, a wider slot is fine.
     
  7. LetItGrowTone

    LetItGrowTone Tele-Meister

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    @Fortuuna
    Then move the saddle.
    If the saddle is moved toward/away from the nut, the fretted note at the 12th fret is sharpened/flatted twice as much as the open string.
    Retune the open string.
    Repeat.
     
  8. jfgesquire

    jfgesquire Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm reading this thread thinking to myself "why hasn't anyone said this before?"

    The low E saddle needs to be moved back so that the length of the string from the fretted point to the saddle is longer, therefore moving pitch in the negative direction.

    That's exactly what adjusting the intonation is all about.
     
  9. Allan Allan

    Allan Allan Tele-Afflicted

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    This guy is going to wreck his guitar. He needs basic set up 101.
     
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  10. Allan Allan

    Allan Allan Tele-Afflicted

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    You set intonation by moving the bridge saddle. Get someone to help you, if you can't watch this video and be careful. You only need to be careful while you're learning it's pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

    For now, Don't touch the nut.

     
  11. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    He'll be fine. I think he got the point. He said above he will take it to a tech for lack of tools.

    This is how we learn. Post here, get insulted, get a few tips, rethink, take it to a tech.
     
  12. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Friend of Leo's

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    Yes. Check the witness points. The bridge is probably not the issue. The height off the neck doesn’t change at the bridge unless you change it. But a wider gauge string at the nut could make a difference in the way the string sits there. It’s pretty common.
     
  13. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Friend of Leo's

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    The bridge intonation isn’t hard and the good news is there is nothing you can damage by adjusting saddles. A flat wound string can bend slightly different than round over a witness point but 12 cents seems a lot. Good luck and nothing is broken.
     
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  14. hepular

    hepular Tele-Holic

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    BUT IF the open string and the 12th fret harmonic are in tune but every fretted note is sharp that points to a combination of a too-high nut slot with a slightly heavier gauge string causing the problem.

    this is kinda why, apart from the stress and paranoia it generates if all you know how to do is move saddles, why people intonate as a system of multiple check points: open, 12th harmonic, 12th fretted, and then moving to the other harmonic nodes AND comparing to other strings.
     
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  15. PhoenixBill

    PhoenixBill Tele-Meister

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    I read the OP’s post as saying he was just playing the open E and then hitting the harmonic (which of course would be in tune with the open string) but he was not playing the 12th fretted. I agree though that too high a nut slot will cause problems with intonation at the first few frets, assuming the saddle was properly adjusted for good intonation at the 12th fret.
     
  16. hepular

    hepular Tele-Holic

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    yeah, i think at a minimum you have to do all 3.

    Recently replaced the stock pos nut on my hannah montana tele & ran into a similar problem in that i could get the open, 12thf & 12thh intonated, but every note from g on up was slightly sharp until about the 11th fret (hello neck relief!!) and, i think, it was a combination of nut slightly too high AND i cut the slot ever-so-slightly wrong so the string wasn't aligned correctly.

    which brings up a key point to my mind: it's frustrating to get stuff wrong, but the parts are fairly cheap, and it's cool to learn stuff, with a low risk of serious damage.

    ain't going anywhere near refretting tho
     
  17. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Friend of Leo's

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    Totally. I'd tell anyone to try to adjust a bridge. I think it's a good idea for any player to learn how it works. I would not advise messing with a nut unless you have adult supervision.
     
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  18. hepular

    hepular Tele-Holic

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    QUALIFIED adult supervision!!!!
     
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  19. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Friend of Leo's

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    Right on. I have worked for a guitar manufacturer and I do not really like to file if I don't have to, it's pretty easy to find someone good at it. I am having a nut replaced on a newer guitar and Straight Frets is using their PLEK tool, I'm interested to see how that comes out. Can't pick it up because of the sharknado weather. I say I know how to do it but I am irresponsible with cutting tools.
     
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  20. Ron C

    Ron C Tele-Holic

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    10-46 round wound and 10-48 flat wound doesn't sound like a big difference, but flats are typically a good amount stiffer than round wounds of the same gauge. In addition to the comments about nut and saddle adjustments being needed, I think that the extra tension may have changed relief, too.

    D'Addario used to post all this string tension info on their site but I don't know where it's gone to.

    OP, this should be easy stuff for a qualified guitar tech to sort out. It's also not hard to learn, but nut work requires some specialized tools and practice. And a realization that if we cut it too deep or wide, it's often best to scrap the nut and start over. When I do nut work, I feel a lot better when I have an extra blank or two around, along with plenty of time for a do-over.
     
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