Love my amp but I’m getting too lazy to use it

burntfrijoles

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I think I’ll have to eat my words and say mea culpa for the disparaging remarks towards modeling. Oh, I still prefer my amp, as special edition 12’ speaker version of the PRRI. It’s has great tones and is a great pedal platform.
I love it so much that I haven’t played it in about two months. Instead I’ve been using my Iridium and the stock Logic amp plugins. I will likely buy a third party amp plugin when they are updated to run natively on Apple silicon M1 Macs.

It’s not that I think the Iridium or Logic plugins sound better or as good as my PRRI (they don’t) but it’s much easier to use the Iridium etc than to mic my amp. This is particularly true for recording. The simulated tones are good enough. To top it off, I don’t think I’ve gotten the best out of the Iridium or Logic yet because I’m still learning how to maximize the tones. I’m speaking of more of the tech side of it than the actual tones. For example, some times my lead tone sound thinner than I would like but when I tweak my settings I screw something else up. I don’t think this is the Iridium or the plugins fault but rather my limitations at diagnosing what is needs, e.g. EQ, ambience, etc.

I’ll still play the PRRI but I think it’s going to become less and less utilized. I’m not ready to ditch it although I may replace it with a TM Deluxe Reverb at some point. There's still something about playing through an amp, plus sometimes I get better results recording with mic'ing the darn thing.

These times they are a changin’
 

Engine Swap

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I only use my 1965 Deluxe Reverb if I want to hear “what a guitar really sounds like”.

I use modelers and sims for 99.99% percent of recordings these days.
 

archetype

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I think I understand what you're explaining, but if both amps are set up and ready to use and record with, I don't understand how you're too lazy to plug into one vs. the other. Am I missing something?
 

TeleTex82

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I think both are great and both have their uses. If you're mostly recording then going the modeler/digital route probably makes the most sense. You can get a much greater variety of great tones much more easily and quickly.
 

Wound_Up

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Personally, I'm glad I don't have do mess with any of that when I play. I just turn on my amp, grab a guitar off the wall and play lol. Maybe in a few more years... I've only been at this since Dec 2019 and I currently play to satisfy myself so I don't have a need to record.
 

burntfrijoles

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I think I understand what you're explaining, but if both amps are set up and ready to use and record with, I don't understand how you're too lazy to plug into one vs. the other. Am I missing something?
It's simple. Both the Iridium and native Logic plugins are at my fingertips on my desk. If I want to tweak or alter the settings, I don't have to move from my seat. I don't keep a mic on my speaker cabinet at all times. I put it away after recording. I also don't have a single setting on my amp that meets all of my needs.
Here was my epiphany. After recording several songs with the Iridium or Logic plugins, I decided to turn on my amp and play along with the recording. To my surprise, I wasn't blown away by the amp compared to the simulated sounds. I really enjoyed playing through the amp I didn't think I could have done any better had I used the amp for recording.
On the other hand maybe it's just my perception that the amp is more hassle than Iridium/plugins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

brookdalebill

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I use and love a cheap modeler.
A Roland Cube 80XL.
I am around tube amps all the time, but I have become somewhat resistant to their charms.
They’re often noisy, too.
At 35ish lbs., the Cubes are not too bad to move around.
I stack two, and only play through the top one.
The bottom is a perfect spare/stand.
It gets it at the right height for me to twiddle the knobs.
I’m still shopping for a tube amp, and I work at a great shop on Wednesdays, but I remain unimpressed, so far.
 

burntfrijoles

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I’m still shopping for a tube amp
In my perfect gear world, I have a music room large enough to comfortably accommodate a Vox AC30, a Bluesbreaker, Marshall Plexi half stack, Super Reverb and Deluxe Reverb. (Plus all the necessary guitars to accompany them). Of course, that's not reality. Plus, I'd need a way to attenuate them all. As Dana Carvey would say in his best George HW Walker voice "not gonna do it".
Instead I have my PRRI. I employ a Catalinbread DLS to mimic Marshall tones and a Catalinbread 5F6 for tweed like tones. I've had several Vox "amp-in-a-box" pedals but I didn't really like them. The DLS and 5F6 sound really great with the PRRI. I no longer use the onboard reverb or tremolo on the PRRI and rely on a Strymon Flint for those effects.
Now I have my Iridium and the plugins. Easy peasy and close enough in most cases.
 

Wally

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And so the world ends….not with bang but a modeler??. Lol….
yes, quick and versatile beats music every time!
The march has begun, and it will continue to the inevitable.
Time for someone to put the album out…”Raised on Digital”.

@burntfrijoles, I’ll give you $350 for that obsolete PRRI and you can keep the OEM speaker. I don’t mind going to the trouble of using an amp. I am in the same condition as that tube amp’s technology. Eeeeehaw…
 

horseman308

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I'm solidly ambivalent on the modeling thing. Cognitively, I realize they've really advanced, and the Iridium is what I'd go with if I bought one. I don't record, but I gig regularly, and I can appreciate the appeal of not carrying a heavy amp at 1:00 AM.

To complicate matters further, for me it's the age-old issue of being able to push the amp hard enough to get the tone I want without contributing to really high stage volume. I love my Prosonic's tones, but the bars and sound guys we work with want the stage volume lower and lower. So, getting it to a lower volume and still in the sweet spot is getting harder. I have never been thrilled with how an attenuator worked for me. I'm starting to think about what lower power amp might fit the bill 😪, but that's a different topic. A modeler would certainly solve that problem of excessive stage volume. Though getting our drummer to turn down is still problematic.

I've started using in-ears rather than monitor wedges, which are fantastic for protecting my hearing and getting just the monitor mix I want. However, short of paying nearly a grand for a top-tier in-ear receiver set, no affordable set let's you hear the nuances of a great amp tone. An Iridium or the like probably won't be any worse than a good amp through modest in-ears, but the idea of going that route just depresses me. At least now, I can pull out the in-ears when I really eanna hear the inspiration of a good amp.
 

Wally

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I replaced the stock speaker with a Celestion. The PRRI isn’t going any time soon. Plus I could get more than $350.😁

yeah, I realize what the market is. However, if enough digital users keep talking, that PRRI might not be worth even $350, eh? :)^) oh….and IF you wanted to sell that amp to me, you could keep the Celestion, too.
 

bottlenecker

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I'm trying to decide if I'd be more sad to give up amps, or microphones.

I often do things quick and dirty when I'm recording myself so the grunt work doesn't get in the way. But to me, that means miking a small amp next to me with one mic, instead of putting a big amp in another room with long cables and several mics.
 

Blrfl

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For example, some times my lead tone sound thinner than I would like but when I tweak my settings I screw something else up. I don’t think this is the Iridium or the plugins fault but rather my limitations at diagnosing what is needs, e.g. EQ, ambience, etc.

Welcome to the modeling fold. Developing an ear for that takes time and experimentation no matter what the technology.

One of the shortcomings of the Iridium and plugins is that they present themselves as traditional hardware devices that don't have good workflow for efficient experimentation. Logic may store the settings for the plugins with the project and the Iridium has its one preset slot, but neither can do much to prevent permanently screwing something up. If you've already twisted the knob on the Iridium, you'll never be able to put it back to precisely the same place and there's no way to pull it back from its one preset (the "favorite"). In Logic, you'd be able to re-load the project to get the old settings back, but that gets clumsy and time-consuming.

Here's an example of what I mean about better workflow. I've been developing a patch for my Ampero called "Rat Bag" that's based around models of the ProCo Rat, Dr. Z Maz 38 Senior and a Matchless Chieftain 2x12 cabinet. The Ampero has groups of three patches called banks. I'm working on Rat Bag in bank 32 (the P stands for "user patch"):

Screenshot from 2022-05-30 12-33-24.png


32-1 (bank 32, patch 1) is where the first cut is developed and the the most-recent "good" version is stored. I can clone that into 32-2 and I work on further changes there without destroying the good version. If what I do in 32-2 turns out to be better, I save that back into 32-1 and keep working. If it's worse, I can re-clone 32-1 and start over with a fresh copy. Sometimes I'll try things two different ways by using 32-3 as well, picking whichever one I like better as what gets saved into 32-1.

The advantage here is that the good version is preserved until I have something better. I can refer back to it for settings of specific blocks and can do instant A/B or A/B/C comparisons by stomping on the unit's buttons while playing. Once I'm completely done, I store the final version in one of the banks I use for regular playing and recycle bank 32 for other development. It's more-complicated than plain pedals, but it doesn't have that element of "I had it perfect ten minutes ago and can't get it just right again." And, really, if you can handle using a word processor to write a letter, you can handle this stuff, too.

One unrelated thing: If you're finding what comes out of your modeled stuff a little thin, add EQ ahead of it and give 500 Hz a boost. That's an old trick that works with analog stuff, too.
 

Tim S

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I think I’ll have to eat my words and say mea culpa for the disparaging remarks towards modeling. Oh, I still prefer my amp, as special edition 12’ speaker version of the PRRI. It’s has great tones and is a great pedal platform.
I love it so much that I haven’t played it in about two months. Instead I’ve been using my Iridium and the stock Logic amp plugins. I will likely buy a third party amp plugin when they are updated to run natively on Apple silicon M1 Macs.

It’s not that I think the Iridium or Logic plugins sound better or as good as my PRRI (they don’t) but it’s much easier to use the Iridium etc than to mic my amp. This is particularly true for recording. The simulated tones are good enough. To top it off, I don’t think I’ve gotten the best out of the Iridium or Logic yet because I’m still learning how to maximize the tones. I’m speaking of more of the tech side of it than the actual tones. For example, some times my lead tone sound thinner than I would like but when I tweak my settings I screw something else up. I don’t think this is the Iridium or the plugins fault but rather my limitations at diagnosing what is needs, e.g. EQ, ambience, etc.

I’ll still play the PRRI but I think it’s going to become less and less utilized. I’m not ready to ditch it although I may replace it with a TM Deluxe Reverb at some point. There's still something about playing through an amp, plus sometimes I get better results recording with mic'ing the darn thing.

These times they are a changin’
I think it’s fantastic that you went outside your comfort zone and found a solution that works for you. And you’re still able to appreciate what a good amp offers. It sound to me like you’re doubly-blessed.

Perhaps after concentrating on the modeling for a while, you’ll go back to a traditional amp with a slightly different approach. And eventually the tide might change again. ;)
 

burntfrijoles

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I gig regularly, and I can appreciate the appeal of not carrying a heavy amp at 1:00 AM.

To complicate matters further, for me it's the age-old issue of being able to push the amp hard enough to get the tone I want without contributing to really high stage volume. I love my Prosonic's tones, but the bars and sound guys we work with want the stage volume lower and lower.
Sounds like a Tone Master would solve both problems.
to me, that means miking a small amp next to me with one mic, instead of putting a big amp in another room with long cables and several mics.
I’d never put the effort into mic’ing an amp in another room. Like I said, I’m lazy.
 

ahiddentableau

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I think it’s fantastic that you went outside your comfort zone and found a solution that works for you. And you’re still able to appreciate what a good amp offers. It sound to me like you’re doubly-blessed.

This +100. So many threads assume you have to pick between amps or modellers the instant the topic comes up. That's nonsense. They're both great and can really complement one another.

I love modellers for recording and lower volume practice and feel you don't miss out on anything in those contexts. But there's still something special about playing a great amp, the sound and response in the room, etc, and I am not about to sell my tube amps any time soon.
 




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