Love doesn't make sense

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by nightingale, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. nightingale

    nightingale TDPRI Member

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    I am reading a novel, but I haven't finished it yet. Half way through the book a character brought up this interesting opinion on love:

    "Trying to talk sense to a man or woman in love is useless. But love doesn't make sense. Love is an emotion."

    I couldn't agree more. I will say when you are still in love, you are more likely to ignore your partner's flaws. It only makes sense after the break up.

    In this case, let me share with you my friend's situation. She has broken up with the same boyfriend for the 4th time , but still sleeps at his place now and again.
    The chance is slim that I can talk her out of doing this again. She told me the boyfriend would not have time to see another girl so he felt OK for her to stay at his place.
    I can see that she doesn't want to let go of the boyfriend, but I don't understand why he is doing this to her.

    I know some of you may think it's her own business and I shouldn't comment on it. But when it comes to my best friend, I don't want to see her get hurt.

    Do you have any experience to share with us? Any wise advice is also welcomed. :D
     
  2. Fretting out

    Fretting out Tele-Meister

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    Kind of like what that character says in your book,logic is thrown out the window when in love
    And the person in love is the last person to find out what is best for them
     
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  3. Mike SS

    Mike SS Poster Extraordinaire

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    It sounds like the prospect of being alone is more painful to her than anything the boyfriend does, so she keeps convincing herself he will change. Just let her know you are always there for her if she needs you. It is about all you can do.
     
  4. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The love emotion is all powerful and blind in many aspects. Be very careful with your advice. Better to prepare for the falling out than getting involved IMO.
     
  5. Stubee

    Stubee Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    I agree with Obsessed. Love is blind, knows no bounds, etc etc etc. Logic is a poor soldier to send out to battle against Love. Your advice probably won’t be heeded or welcomed, but there may be a weak “thank you” years down the road. Maybe not. There might not be long term harm to you from trying to help, just short term, but even if you’re right as rain nobody will ever admit to that with their heart except you. It’s the way it is.

    I know that road and speak from both sides, all directions.
     
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  6. chet again

    chet again Tele-Holic

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    "Love stinks...

    yeah, yeah"
     
  7. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    It’s not rocket science to understand why he is doing what he is doing. A woman coming round occasionally is hardly going to be unwelcome to most men.

    As said, private lives and relationships are complicated and unless they keep breaking it up because he is abusive or physically hurts her and where you may want to intervene, it could be myriad things that stops their busy lives working out together. As a friend you can just stand by and wait to help if needed.

    I’d be more keen to understand if this is really more about unrequited feelings about your ‘best friend’ though, in which case the rules might change.
     
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  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Love is an emotion?

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    So those who believe that nonsense and have been "in love"; are you in love some days and just not in love other days?
    How often does that "emotion" change?

    For me it's sort of a cross between gravity and directing the fall to avoid being smashed on the rocks.

    Of course I can have an emotional response to a pretty girl smiling at me in a certain way, that sort of thing.
    But that's an emotional response, maybe lust and pride. Not love.
     
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  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Not a nice thing to know or talk about but I know of numerous single Mother's who struggle to work and pay for home, kid, transportation etc, and end up living with a man they don't even like just to survive.
    They are basically trapped.
    Here I presume there is no kid involved, but she feels a need to have a man for whatever other reason. Even one she doesn't really have a good thing with.

    Not sure who is using who in general or in the single mother scenario, but one is getting something they want while the other is getting something they and their child needs, in exchange for something they don't enjoy giving.
    Or maybe both are getting something in a business arrangement.

    I was recently discussing the decision with a 30yo woman who needed to move out of the house in a divorce, and couldn't afford a place for herself and her son. She had friend who seemed like a nice enough guy offering to take them in.
    There was no prior romantic involvement.
    I suggested it was a lot of pressure to put on her son and herself.
    She could probably have afforded a too small apt in a lousy neighborhood.
    I could see the desperation.
    Not sure if this sort of thing happens in Hong Kong?
    I suppose it's not all that obvious, since the mother puts on a happy face for the kids.
    You have to look for those quiet moments when the mask slips and the grief shows through.

    Sorry @nightingale ...
     
  10. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    In affairs of the heart, no one, and I mean no one can influence another. They have to learn on their own, and some never do. I've been criticized for saying so, but there are some people in life who like to, or maybe are born to suffer. It's a way of life for them. Beware of them, they are like trying to carry an anchor in deep water, you will only cause yourself harm if you get involved with them.
     
  11. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Holic

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    The most useful single class I took in college was a logic class offered through the philosophy department. While we all intuitively think we recognize logic in the world around us, formal logic operates according to a defined set of rules. One can apply these rules to any situation in life to determine if the conclusion is logical or not. I found it almost like solving math problems, but with words instead of numbers.

    Part of our regular weekly assignments involved identifying situations in life, literature, songs etc and applying logic to determine whether the outcome was logical or not. The one caveat the professor insisted upon was that we don't try to apply the formal rules of logic to any romantic situation since love lies beyond the reach of logic.

    In all of the years since I took that class I have used logic to help me in numerous ways in life. And I have never found one instance where it has had any bearing on matters of the heart.
     
  12. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I would say 'logic' is a very slippery word. I think (as do many others) it's reasonable and completely valid to say that there are at least two kinds of logical processes running at the same time in people.....the logic of the conscious mind and the logic of the unconscious mind.

    Both 'minds' are rule driven and are logical within themselves. Each of our minds have different priorities that run simultaneously. We in the West are most aware of our conscious, cognitive logic because of cultural biases.....but many other cultures have a intimate relationship with and awareness of unconscious logic.....matters of the heart is one example. The body is the battleground when there is an imbalance of importance placed on one type of logic over the other.....that's when we get strong, unpleasant emotions, sensations and feelings and even physical symptoms/disease.

    I think this is a fairly well understood thing.....which is of course rejected by probably the majority of people in our culture.....because of cultural bias......and around and around we go!!

    We also live in a VERY science oriented culture which almost exclusively rewards the activities of conscious logic which is a bit paradoxical because many of the great science ideas came from the realm of the unconscious....hunches, intuitions, gut feelings, etc. It's funny how we are biased toward conscious logic and dismissive and fearful of unconscious processes. The truth is of course it's those unconscious processes that are really driving the bus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  13. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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  14. kiwi blue

    kiwi blue Tele-Afflicted

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    Sometimes these things we call love are very compulsive, needy. Often the person wakes up as if from a spell and looks back thinking they must have been crazy. Then they (we) go and do it again.

    I've been in her shoes and yours. She's on a journey that can only be ended by her own awakening. There's nothing you can do except be there, unjudging.
     
  15. nightingale

    nightingale TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys!

    @ Mike SS
    She did mention once that she is afraid to spend the rest of her life alone,
    which is one of the reasons why she is clinging to the boyfriend.


    @ Obsessed
    Yeah... I didn't say much about her latest break up.


    @ Stubee
    She tends to shut herself off from the world when problems appear. That's why I feel the need to make her see the whole picture.
    But sometimes it is hard to not add in my personal view. I hope she will find a way out soon.


    @ Guitarteach
    Nothing abusive has happened between them. But the boyfriend literally warned my friend that if she quits her job he will break up with her.
    I know she is under great pressure at work and has considered to resign.


    @ telemnemonics
    No kid is involved, but if you ask me to think of a reason, I will say they have hearts filled with loneliness, an excuse for their current mutual companionship, just a boy looking for a girlfriend and vice versa. They are clearly not in love.

    For the single mom scenario, as a victim of divorced parents, the business arrangement has negative impact their kids' mental development, no matter what causes the divorce.

    As for Hong Kong... I have heard stories about men don't or fail to get a girlfriend because they can't afford a house.
    It is said but true, I have a male friend who broke up with his girlfriend after being together for 5 years. Limited living space is a hot potato here.
    If anyone wants to find out more about the housing price in here, check this out: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/09/heres-why-hong-kong-housing-is-so-expensive.html

    Sorry if any of these sounds too depressing to you.


    @ Toto
    Depression is infectious.


    @ Nightclub Dwight & boneyguy
    Learned from science program that decisions are made subconsciously before our conscious mind kicks in, although you feel like you are the one who makes the call.


    @ kiwi blue
    Thanks. Finger crossed.
     
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  16. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You want advice from the people of the USA?

    We're in an incredibly destructive love arrangement ourselves. I turn the thinking over to you.
     
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  17. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    See below.

    Also, I was taking logic and symbolic logic at UM at the same time :eek: and once I found out that if I took two more Spanish classes I didn’t have to take the “logic” duo - I dropped ‘em like a hot skillet.

    Yes
     
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  18. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    And I can make an argument for how it does make sense. It's been on my mind with this summer marking 30 years with my wife.

    There is emotion but also extraordinary friendship and a superb business relationship.
     
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  19. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    ^This. Lately, we've gone through this with 2 different close friends. Seeing the light has to be a self-generated realization and no one can be led to the light. Just listen and advise from a place of love.

    A consistent thing we say to people going through this...

    Every minute you spend with someone you know you have no future with is a minute you're not available to meet someone who might enjoy, respect, and love you
     
  20. GuitarKid

    GuitarKid Tele-Meister

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    Love is the sense, therefore it can't be explained. It's meta-language. Try to explain a color, or a sound. You can say it's warm, bright, dark, but not much beyond this, because the meaning and the thing in itself are inseparable. Love is meaning. We can't rationalize it just like we can't say with precision why we're here.

    Personally I'd say love is the only thing that brought and keeps us here, despite what it may look like.
     
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