Lousy Monitors gigs.

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by OlRedNeckHippy, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. wulfenganck

    wulfenganck Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm pretty much with codamedia and Stingfan73 here.
    If you spent at least half as much money and effort in the monitoring as you put in your personal instrumental equipment, you'll get some decent quality and offer the sound guy somethinghe/she can work with.
    If you behave like an adult and try to get a good BAND-sound instead of showing-off your personal rockstar-extravaganza, the sound guy might as well be able to actually do his job.
    For the rest of it...well.....
     
  2. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Theoretically, that's the place to start on your front-of-house sound, but most monitor mixes need to have much of the bass frequencies cut unless you are outside and not in an amphitheater. Indoors, there is always substantial bass reflection, and since bass frequencies are bouncing back in your ears, the monitors won't cut through the stage volume and sound clear unless you attenuate the lower frequencies in the monitor speakers, especially if they are floor wedges.

    I can't count how many times semi-pro sound men have tried to establish a pristine monitor mix at the start of a sound check, and then, when they turn the FOH speakers on ... mud. That's the backward way to balance a room. That's how many bands end up with what they perceive as "too much Bass" in the mix ... it's not just too much of the Bass player, it's usually too much bass frequencies in the monitors. Get a great balance in the house speakers, then adjust the monitors so they provide adequate mids and highs to feed you a counterbalance to the bass reflections.
     
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  3. Tony Done

    Tony Done Friend of Leo's

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    I never had a major problem, because we mostly did our own sound. However, I always played safe and used my amp as my main monitor, miced and DI'ed into the PA.
     
  4. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    Did you notice my last sentence :) (All too often bad monitor mixes can be traced back to an EQ with all of the mid range sucked out)

    I fully agree with your comment.... my thought process was focusing more on the dreaded "mid scoop"...
     
  5. kennl

    kennl Tele-Afflicted

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    My daughter got the task of booking bands at her college coffeehouse years ago, and asked me for some fatherly advice.
    I gave her a list of items for a questionnaire for prospective bands, including sound, staging, transportation, and essentials.
    When she asked the leader of one well-known touring "riot grill" band about their monitor requirements, she replied:
    "Monitors?" "How bourgeois"
     
  6. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I did notice your last sentence. I disagree ... to the extent that re-introducing mids to a bass-heavy monitor EQ doesn't solve the problem of bass reflection from the room. The smaller the room, the worse the problem.

    I think the mid-scoop issue is related to amateur soundmen who have been trained (erroneously, IMO) to shape the graphic EQ sliders in a "smile" shape for the FOH mix without evaluating the spectrum reflection of the room. Without a spectrum analyzer (and the experience to predict the effect of the audience on the room's acoustics), some sound men default to a "smile" EQ graph, even on the monitor mix, which is almost always the wrong EQ for monitors. That's where your mid-scoop comes from. 90% of the time, monitors need very little bass, and varying degrees of mids, with enough high end to cut through and to balance with the bass backlash from the room.

    We do agree that poor soundmen engage in knee-jerk EQ settings rather than understanding the needs of the room acoustics.
     
  7. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Afflicted

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    Of course. Her biggest question would probably be gas or charcoal. As for me, I like gas for convenience, but prefer charcoal (or wood) for flavor.

    Now, back to the real discussion...
     
  8. kennl

    kennl Tele-Afflicted

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    at first, I did not understand your post, then I read mine WITH READING GLASSES
    riot grrrl
    not grill

    thanks again, autocorrect :)
     
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  9. JCSouthpawtele

    JCSouthpawtele Friend of Leo's

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  10. jimash

    jimash Friend of Leo's

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    I used to do sound. I would ring out and notch and limit the monitors before anyone showed up.
    It helps to have a frequency analyzer.
    They were good.
    Bringing your own monitors to a gig that has a PA, is like bringing your own pins to a bowling alley.
     
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  11. JCSouthpawtele

    JCSouthpawtele Friend of Leo's

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    I cut a lot of low end in monitors as I know when the FOH with its subs get turned on all the low end "bloom" will happen. I'll often give a band a false mix of more low end when just giving the monitor mix. Then pull down the lower faders when the house turns on. With digital mixers high pass filters are your friend. I use them on all monitor bus outputs. If you can't fix feedback with just the parametric EQs then maybe it's mic and wedge placement.
     
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  12. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yes, hanging with a better Sound Guy is the best way to do it.
     
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