Louder Speaker for 5E3 tweed deluxe?

[Jammin'John]

I had Ted Weber make me a special speaker many years ago. A 15 watt Blue Dog Ceramic with an EIGHTY OUNCE Ferrite magnet with a Neo helper. I asked him if I should go with a 30 watt since I run the amp wide open a LOT ! He said that the giant magnet would keep the voice coil from getting out of line. It's been 20 years.

 

[dspellman1]

So I'll be honest and suggest that you're not going to achieve what you need to with a speaker swap.

More efficiency will give you a bit more volume, yes. But none of the speakers suggested will move you far enough in the direction you need to go, and I really don't have a better speaker suggestion for you.

More power is in your future, as is (probably) a pair of speakers. Get them up off the floor (preferably near ear level), whether you need top hats and speaker stands or something tall kludged together. Cut bass response below a certain point (perhaps with an HPF) to save amplifier power. Consider adding an 1165N piezo tweeter (cheap and easy) to give you a bit more push above 1800Hz and crank up the mids a bit.

 

[tfillingi]

I have a JBL D-110 in a 60's Princeton reverb and a JBL-K-120 in a 60's Deluxe Reverb. Both sound killer and plenty of volume!!

 

[Theiglupickin]

Louder is not always the solution or a speaker change. EQ'ing your guitar differently can help separate it from other instruments (bass, keys, drums)! However, yes you might not like what you hear if you set it up your tone to your ear. A different EQ setup can sometimes cut thru the mix! I found that engaging my Wah pedal and leave it at half position cuts thru everyone around me. If you don't have a Wah pedal, an EQ pedal can do the same. Fighting these issues with volume alone is a losing battle. Everyone keeps getting louder and no one wins! It's all in the mix~!

 

[bblumentritt]

IDK the your Hellatone treated Italian alnico jensen. but the Jensen P12Q (94.4dB) is 141.6mm (5-5/8 in) deep, with a 70mm (2-3/4in) diameter magnet, and weighs 1.9kg (4.19 lbs).

1. Size and weight must be considered, the size for a physical fit.
2. As an amp builder, the Eminence GB128 is my recommendation. The sensivity is 101.3 dB, significantly louder than you 94.4 dB speaker. The GB128 is 5.1", 129.5 mm deep, so it will easily fit, and weighs 8.1lbs, so it's also heavier.

Comparing the treble peaks, the Jensen peaks at 107dB @ 2kHz while the GB128 peaks at about 109dB @ 2.4kHz.

They both have a dip, the Jensen is 92 dB @ at 1kHz, and the GB128 dip is 95 dB @ 1.5kHz.

The Jensen is bassier, with 99dB @ 94 Hz with a mid dip of 91 dB @ 400 Hz. The GB128 is faily flat at 99 dB fvrom 200 Hz to 800 Hz, where is rizes 102.5 dB at 1kHz.

Bottom line: The Eminence Legend GB128 is much louder, less bassy, and brighter than the Jensen, which to me, makes it ideal for a 5E3, which is too bassy to begin with, unless your home built version takes that out. Farting out is one of the bug-a-boos of the 5E3..

 

[uriah1]

Avatar has a private line of alnicos too.

 

[Maguchi]

Afternoon everyone!

Played at a blues jam last night with my home built 5E3 last night, and while the tone was really nice, I got lost in the mix due to a loud drummer (GREAT drummer, just projects a lot!) I currently have a Hellatone treated Italian alnico jensen in there that’s rated for 94.4db, so it’s a little on the quiet side. What would the hive mind suggest that would be comparable Tone-wise but noticeably louder?

Thanks,
Franc Robert

If the 94.4db speaker wasn't enough for the gigs you play, a more efficient speaker might give you a little more volume but perhaps not enough. A mic in front of the amp might be good if that's possible in the places you play. Last resort, a Tweed Bassman or Tweed Super.

 

[muudcat]

The Clark I have which is a 5E3 clone came with a Weber and it sounds great but if musicians at jams can't control their volume, nothing you do will help. IMHO if a 14 watt amp can't hold it's own the volume is to high, and I've run into it few times, very frustrating

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

The Clark I have which is a 5E3 clone came with a Weber and it sounds great but if musicians at jams can't control their volume, nothing you do will help. IMHO if a 14 watt amp can't hold it's own the volume is to high, and I've run into it few times, very frustrating

That’s how I feel. A single speaker 12-18w or so amp is ideal for a jam, and if it isn’t, whoever’s in charge needs to get a handle on the volume wars. No one should have to bring a twin or a bassman or anything that big to an open jam, and honestly, showing up with that kind of firepower to sit in on someone else’s stage, taking up half the bandstand and eating time setting up your rig is poor jam etiquette imo.

 

[redchapterjubilee]

I have a stock 5E3 clone with a 12A125-O in it. My bandmate has a 5E3 he built from a kit and he did whatever the mods are to let it work better with humbuckers. He keeps a 40/40 in his. That amp is easily 3 or 4 dB louder than mine, which was just enough to let it be useful in a loud unmic’ed band practice scenario. So I got a 40/40 and parked it in my 5E3. It was louder but much darker in my amp than his. so I went back to the 12A125. Certainly some day I’ll speaker swap again and thanks to this thread I’ve got some good ideas to start with.

 

[GPoint]

I'd go with JamesAM suggestion. Those Webers should do you well. If you had money to throw at it, the ultimate would be the JBL K-120. 100W, 104dB. Can't believe they stopped making these. It's about the greatest 12" speaker ever made, obviously depending on usage. Reverb has a couple listed at around $500.00. I got mine about 8-10 years ago for $125.00!! I easily would've paid double that. Killer condition too. Truth be told, when I lived in SF, I had bought a Sebago 1 x 12 wide oval back cab. Waited for 4 years for a K-120 to pop up on CL, but oh man it was worth it.

JBL K120 sensitivity is 101dB 1w/1m, it has an Alnico magnet, an aluminum cap is adding pair dBs on frequencies from some 600-800Hz and up to 8-9kHz, a very bright sounding loudspeaker, good for clean rhythm sounds/tones, but not for fat leads playing. JBL E120 has even more - 103dB 1w/1m sensitivity, but uses a ceramic magnet. The sound/tone has the same brightness + a little bit dryer/harsher (ceramic magnet).

 

[Dacious]

Emi SC59. Or alnico Legend 12. Some of the suggested speakers will not fit in the cabinet with the stock chassis.

 

[Refugee]

JBL K120 sensitivity is 101dB 1w/1m, it has an Alnico magnet, an aluminum cap is adding pair dBs on frequencies from some 600-800Hz and up to 8-9kHz, a very bright sounding loudspeaker, good for clean rhythm sounds/tones, but not for fat leads playing. JBL E120 has even more - 103dB 1w/1m sensitivity, but uses a ceramic magnet. The sound/tone has the same brightness + a little bit dryer/harsher (ceramic magnet).

IDK, a 5E3 won't put out enough juice to get a 300W speaker breathing. Heck, a D120 might even be a better choice. You can't really go wrong with any of them. finding any won 't be easy or cheap. Good luck.

 

[Axis29]

It's funny, I ignored this thread when it first popped up, thinking that my 5e3 was plenty loud. Then, I went to a jam where the host guitar player was loud. He had his Blues Deluxe kicking pretty good. My 5e3 was on it's max volume, and it was just barely there. I think the audience could hear just fine... But, I could barely hear me right in front of my amp (at ear level).

At one point, the host guitar player leans over and says, '<aybe you should turn up?'

I currently have what I think is the perfect speaker for this amp, an Eminence 1228. It sounds fantastic at all volumes... But, obviously is not all that efficient.

It came with a Celestion Gold, which sounded awesome at volume. At low volume, practice and jams, it sounded muddy and way too dark.

I love my 5e3. I love it with the Eminence in it. But, I think I'm gonna try my Creamback G12M-65 in it this week. I don't think it's quite as dark as the Gold. I'll report back on my experience.

 

[Bobbyoso]

Probably not what you're interested in but I don't care for Jensens of any year or type. I'd say get a Celestion Vintage 30. I prefer Greenbacks but I use more powerful amps than you and either a 2x12 or 4x12 cab. A 65 watt speaker will make a 20 watt amp louder, I know from experience. And the Vintage 30, though not my particular favorite, is a great sounding speaker.

The speaker's wattage aka power handling capability does not correlate to loudness; the sensitivity (measured as db/watt @ 1 meter) of the respective speakers does.

In other words, a 65-watt, 94 db speaker will be QUIETER at the same amp settings as a 30-watt, 100 db speaker. In other other words, with an amp producing exactly 1 watt, the volume 1 meter from the 65-watt speaker will be 94 db, and 100 db using the 30-watt speaker.

Given the fact that it takes a doubling of power to produce a 3 db increase, going from a 94 db/w/m speaker to a 100 db/w/m speaker regardless of wattage, is equivalent volume-wise to a 4x amp output wattage increase, as long as you're not running either the amp or the speaker outside their respective performance envelopes.

So if you're looking to get "louder" or "quieter", you merely need to change the sensitivity of the speaker you're using as long as the power handling capability of the speaker is greater than the amp's output power (so you don't fry it). And of course, the tone will not be identical if the speakers' response curves aren't. But speaker wattage just tells you how much power it can safely handle, and sensitivity tells you relative volume.

 

[Arfage]

The speaker's wattage aka power handling capability does not correlate to loudness; the sensitivity (measured as db/watt @ 1 meter) of the respective speakers does.

In other words, a 65-watt, 94 db speaker will be QUIETER at the same amp settings as a 30-watt, 100 db speaker. In other other words, with an amp producing exactly 1 watt, the volume 1 meter from the 65-watt speaker will be 94 db, and 100 db using the 30-watt speaker.

Given the fact that it takes a doubling of power to produce a 3 db increase, going from a 94 db/w/m speaker to a 100 db/w/m speaker regardless of wattage, is equivalent volume-wise to a 4x amp output wattage increase, as long as you're not running either the amp or the speaker outside their respective performance envelopes.

So if you're looking to get "louder" or "quieter", you merely need to change the sensitivity of the speaker you're using as long as the power handling capability of the speaker is greater than the amp's output power (so you don't fry it). And of course, the tone will not be identical if the speakers' response curves aren't. But speaker wattage just tells you how much power it can safely handle, and sensitivity tells you relative volume.

Whatever - the V 30 is known for being louder.

 

[Bobbyoso]

Whatever - the V 30 is known for being louder.

If you're going to advise people, it helps to know what you're doing. Wrong advice is worse than none at all. Speaker loudness is completely independent of its power handling capacity, and IS a function of speaker sensitivity.

"Whatever", indeed.

 

[monkeybanana]

Well the OP is now the owner of a very nice efficient Weber speaker. Sold to him for a very good deal by a very cool forum member. Oh that's me haha. Enjoy Franc!

 

[jman72]

I have a Jensen C12N in my 5e3 and I LOVE it. Maybe not the classic Tweed sound (I really don't know, honestly), but at 97.5db sensitivity it is loud enough to hang with the drummers I play with in a full band situation, no problems.

 

[backalleyblues]

Put in the speaker that MonkeyBanana sold me (Weber 12A125), it definitely does the trick-extra bonus is now the amp doesn't sound so shrill, more like what I expect a tweed Deluxe to sound like-thanks man!!!

Franc Robert