Loose Tuning Pegs

[Agave_Blue]

2005 MIM standard Tele. Stock.

I noticed that the tuners were loose. They were loose in the headstock and the peg (where the string wraps) wobbled. So I snugged them up by tightening the nut on the top side of the peg. Not too tight, just a bit more than hand tight.

Although it may seem stupid to ask: Is this OK? Was I correct to assume they should be snug and not wobble?

 

[David Collins]

The threaded bushings that hold the tuners in place should be tightened just beyond snug, just as you did. Tolerances in the tuners will still leave most posts to wobble slightly within this bushing when strings are off, but this is inconsequential once the strings are tightened.

 

[Agave_Blue]

The threaded bushings that hold the tuners in place should be tightened just beyond snug, just as you did. Tolerances in the tuners will still leave most posts to wobble slightly within this bushing when strings are off, but this is inconsequential once the strings are tightened.

Thanks. I read something (probably incorrectly) that made me think maybe they weren't supposed to be tightened.


BTW - although this is not the actual headstock, it illustrates what I meant:

image removed

 

[David Collins]

Right, in that what you read was incorrect, or at least only half-true in the way you have it written. They should not be over-tightened, as you will simply crack the finish on the headstock. They shouldn't be left loose either though. If they are not snugged down at least tight enough to hold them in place, they can twist or even tilt forward in some cases, which can also actually crack the finish on the face. Tightened just beyond snug, or just enough so that the tuner does not want to turn under string tension. It's something that would likely be measured in inch-pounds rather than foot-pounds.

Tightening those bushings will have no effect on removing slop in the tuner post though. That's just slop in the mechanics of the tuner itself, and there's no practical means of lessening that. There's no practical need to either though. Tuner shafts can be sloppier than a Guitar Center repair tech, but once you have them under string tension all that slop is pulled to one side, and thus pretty much factored out from creating any real issues related to function.

 

[Agave_Blue]

David, thanks, that's a great explaination. Cracking the finish and/or headstock was what I was worried about when I tightened them. That's exactly why I just wanted them snug. Just intuition on my part and very glad to hear I guessed right.

I had the exact problem you described before tightening: they were so loose, they were moving around; twisting and/or bending forward.

Thanks again for a very helpful answer to such a trivial quesiton.

 

[mellecaster]

What David said is 100% True...and if it makes you feel any better, 90% of Guitars that come in my Shop have loose Tuner Bushings...from either Wood compression (on Newer ones) or Vibration & compression (on older ones) Keep a 10mm wrench by your bench, for whenever you change strings, and keep em Snug.

 

[tdowns]

Mellecaster probably has 1000x more experience than I do. But with my sampling of guitars with those type tuners, I believe I have observed 100% to be loose. Wood shrinks with time. It's not by very much, but it doesn't take much to go from good torque to no torque!! In my opinion, these tuners are a bad design because they are destined to come loose. It's OK if you keep on top of it. I'm sure Melle's customers love it when he points out a loose tuner they had no idea they had.

Another not so favorable part of this tuner design is the hex part of the bushing is very thin. See the dimension depicted in red below.

(image removed)​

If you use a regular 10mm socket like the one pictured on the right below, the lead-in chamfer of the socket will not "grab" the thin hex nut very well and will booger up the corners of the hex. An open-end wrench is OK, but they can tend to slip off and damage the corners if you are not careful. I went to a pawn shop and bought a 10mm deep well for 50 cents and used the grinder to grind down the end to below the lead-in chamfer feature. This allows the socket inside surface to make maximum contact with the hex. Of course you can only use this with the strings removed, but you should be doing that often anyway.

(image removed)​

It's also a good idea to check the torque of everything on a guitar occasionally. I've found the neck screws are not very tight on guitars often as well.

 

[David Collins]

The shallow hex head is an important point. Standard socket wrenches will be chamfered at the end to help guide the socket on to a standard nut, but that chamfer is usually about the same depth as a tuner bushing head is deep, leaving you to only barely grab at the corners, if at all. I keep four socket wrenches in line at my bench - 10mm for most tuners, 7/16" for Sperzels and some import electronics (doubles effectively as an 11mm), 12mm for some import electronics, and 1/2" for US pots and jacks - all of them ground flush as Terry showed. All of these nuts and bushings are typically too shallow to use a standard socket with, and all of them are regularly found loose.

Pretty much any time I have the strings off a guitar, it's almost an automatic reaction to grab the 10mm socket and snug up the tuners, as they pretty much all need it.

 

[tdowns]

....... that chamfer is usually about the same depth as a tuner bushing head is deep, leaving you to only barely grab at the corners, if at all. .....

That's what I was trying to convey. Thanks so much for adding some very well worded clarity to the post.

Now you had me thinking. I don't have a 1/2" socket ground down. Why not? I ran out to my shop and discovered the Xcelite nutdriver set I had from the 70s does not have a lead-in chamfer. That's why it has worked perfectly for pots and jacks all these years.

Great posts David.

 

[mellecaster]

Another point to add to the Excellent ones made already...it seems they don't chase the Chrome plating off the threads on these style Tuners...and recalling my Ole Harley days, Chrome on threads don't stay tight too well.....