Loose Acoustic Bridge

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Ira7, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah...I need the clamps and caul.

    And I used original Titebond.
     
  2. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Do I need to use a heat gun on it to fully remove it?

    I figure a few more tunings and she'll rip clean on her own!
     
  3. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    OK, here's the short version of one story re: a friend who tite-bonded the neck repair on his Gibson. Guy is a very smart handy construction foreman who knows carpentry and runs huge projects. Also a good guitar player. Gibson has a classic neck break ... glues it with Tite-Bond I, works great, repair is excellent, no problem ... until it get hot and humid a few months later. Rainy summer day, door to the studio open while hangin around the back yard ... BOING, headstock collapses while the guitar hangs on the wall from a neck-hook. It was played many times up until then.
    Repaired again, this time with small biscuits and more Tight-Bond I. Couple months later (after many gigs and sessions, collapses again. Now the crack has lost some wood splinters and is starting to look rough.
    Finally, the break gets fixed with Tite-Bond III, and it doesn't look so good, since it's been crashed three times, but it is going nowhere. It's lasted about six years, through floods, misty outdoor gigs, left in the truck, left in the patio, sub-tropical heat and humidity ... it's rock solid. Admittedly, the repair looks ragged, but it's strong as heck, with medium strings. That's why I avoid water softened glues. (Some of my friends are using Elmers for repairs .. oh, Lord.)
     
  4. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A million Titebond repaired Gibson pegheads in hot and humid conditions around the world would probably have a differing opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  5. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Would love to see pictures.
     
  6. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    the thing is, you can't glue, glue. The trick is you need a thin enough film to bond the wood to itself. if the glue is too thick it won't hold properly.The joint (break) needs to be clean of loose bits. On consideration I beleive I used Elmer's wood glue for my broken neck, and I used a capo, and 3 nylon zip ties to clamp it in place. I let it dry for 48 hrs,and sanded the neck to remove any high spots from glue that squeezed out of the joint. I cleaned up the glue as it squeezed out of the joint during clamping with a damp paper towel, but still the joint wasn't as smooth as I would have liked. After a little light sanding it is fine. It was not a clean break, it was across the grain in a "V" shape with irregular edges.

    the break was low on the neck, but above the heel, probably around the 12th fret. its been 3 years at least and the humidity in Georgia can be considerable. The neck has held together perfectly. I bought the guitar for 28$ because it had a broken neck, it was brand new and damaged in shipping or fell off the wall at Guitar Center. Its a Yamaha APX 500 series II.

    From my reading on the matter, temperature is a bigger factor in glue bond failures, guitars left in hot cars tend to come apart on their own. But I don't leave my guitars out in the rain to test this theory...

    I would not hesitate to use epoxy on a guitar if the repair warranted it. On a cheap guitar with a bad bridge, I might epoxy it. I've got a guitar I got for 30$ off of craigs list that has a host of ills. The bridge was lifting and the frets are worthless. I bought it to learn re-fretting and fingerboard repair, it needs some inlays repaired etc. I removed the bridge with razor blades and a spatula, just to see if I could do it, needless to say, it removed some wood from the top when it came off. I should have heated the bridge with an iron or a silicone heater pad. In any case, I think I"ll epoxy that one back on, since it will be a great experiment. I'm thinking of changing it to a string through bridge like on an Ovation, so I can string it with nylon strings if I want to have a classical sound. (though I have started using ball end nylon strings because they stress the bridge less), tying on those nylons will wear grooves in a bridge, guess nylon is harder than wood....

    My advice, buy some cheap guitars and experiment. for the price of a tank of gas, you might be able to make a useable guitar and learn something in the process.
     
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  7. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I
    I'm sure. Also a billion Elmer's Glue repairs. A big luthier (not a repairman, a luthier) in Las Vegas, was using some kind of sub-par glue on repairs to Gibson headstock breaks, and ... in super-low humidity, no problems ... when a couple of those players relocated to the swampier Gulf coast, they were disappointed, to use an understatement. I'm guaranteed that it was some strange exceptional one in a million circumstance. No warranty enforced, because it never happened in the desert ... new repairman sought. For some reason, that first luthier was in denial. Also stopped returning calls. I'm relieved to know it wasn't possibly Tite-Bond, maybe he was using Crazy Glue.
     
  8. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Also, I'll add that we're not describing how these headstock breaks were finished, or even if the necks were lacquered at all, and the exact angle of the various breaks ... but here's a bit of local Gulf coast info ... most of these repairs had been routinely exposed not only to very high humidity for long periods of time, but to the outdoor gig where mist falls all day/evening, and you need towels handy to wipe down the instrument between songs and during songs. Just a quirk of the patio music culture of a lot of these gigs. I'm inclined to use the glues that have proven to be the most reliable in my experience for bonds that will never need to be re-separated. If I see certain glues fail, or apparently fail, for my own use, I'm sticking with products that I've personally witnessed to always produce consistent results. I'm happy to know that literally millions of other players have been more fortunate than my colleagues and myself.
     
  9. Clinchriver

    Clinchriver Tele-Meister

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    Wish I had see this earlier. Quite a few inexpensive guitars are getting finished with some sort of plastigoo/polyurethane, the factory's are gluing the bridge to the finish with superglue. I would have tested the finish with a drop of acetone (say under the bridge) cleaned off all the old adhesive and re-glued with superglue. If the bridge to top fit was decent you could mask it off apply glue, stick the bridge in place hit with accelerator and let it sit a couple hours and restring
     
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  10. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    On mine? There's nothing to see.

    I pulled the bridge off and it now looks like one of my previously posted pictures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  11. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    First, what's an accelerator? And your masking? Don't understand.

    Apply glue, fit bridge, and mask?
     
  12. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey, instead of starting another thread:

    I took my GK-3 divided pickup (the synth) from this guitar and put it on my Thinline. The controller mounts real easy, using a bracket, but I need a VERY thin adhesive solution to attach the pup to the steel bridge plate.

    What's the thinnest tape product I can find? I need thin because just temporarily placing the pup there, I see that raising the saddles would be required if it was anything more than paper thin.

    It doesn't have to be a super-strong bond, the pup is real tiny and light, and I'm even considering an adhesive that's not tape. If I ever remove it, the worst would be some marking on the bridge plate.

    EDIT:

    Forget it. I started another thread on this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  13. Clinchriver

    Clinchriver Tele-Meister

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    Two layers of masking tape around the bridge, keeps glue off the top. Cut the curves with an exacto knife, makes a pocket for the bridge to sit in. You can get superglue accelerator to speed up the cure time.
     
  14. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Got you.

    Place the bridge, apply tape, cut the mask, remove the bridge, glue, place the bridge.

    Wait...
     
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  15. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I overhang the tape into the "cavity?"
     
  16. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Not to put too fine a point on it, but ... you'd think the Japanese factory that made Epiphone guitars in the early 70s would be using some quality glues (and many parts of Japan get pretty humid). Shortly after relocation to SE Texas, a Japanese Epiphone EA 250 (335-ish) just collapsed. It fell in on itself ... top came off, back separated, most of the binding popped off. I'm looking at the half-empty bottle of Tite-Bond II I used to clamp that guitar back together and laboriously re-attach the strips of binding that hadn't shattered. I don't seem to know much, but that instrument has been through four rainy summers on the coast (and out to the swamps) and is holding together fine. Maybe after 45 years, the original glue deteriorated? I'll let the glue experts figure that one out. So far so good with that poor guitar. It's got mojo.
     
  17. Muzikp

    Muzikp Friend of Leo's

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    Have you ever heated and steamed apart a Titebond original glue joint? The amount of heat or heat and steam it takes to get it apart is more than any hot and humid climate in the world. I'm thinking poor workmanship was at the heart of the failures you described not the heat and humidity. I've seen Titebond original get hot enough to fail on a guitar left in the trunk of a car on a very hot day, but again that's hotter than any livable climate.
     
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  18. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    This is awesome.
    The BFH ties it all together.
     
  19. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DV1YRL/?tag=tdpri-20

    3M Heat Resistant Acrylic Double Sided Adhesive Tape Roll,Clear Sticker for Car/Cell Phone Repair,Red, 3 m×10 mm×1 mm


    upload_2018-6-19_14-38-29.jpeg
     
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  20. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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