Looking for **series-out-of-phase** with 5-way switch for TELE

WilburBufferson

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Hey Moosie -- just made the final connections and..... no sound. My neck PU has 3 wires: black, white, yellow. Yellow is the ground for the cover (which I connected to the pot/ground). Is there anything obviously amiss?
 

WilburBufferson

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It works! Thanks again Moosie for all of your help. I just spent about an hour trying different caps. The half out of phase sounds are thicker than plain out of phase.

Now, for caps values. I couldn't go in the store and choose them myself because of covid-19. Rhe woman who served me didn't seem to be too familiar with this kind of thing and I think I may not have what I originally ordered. I asked for caps .01 uF, .02, .03, .04, and .05.

In the end, I liked the yellow cap on its own and the red and green caps together. I cant tell you what values they are but I snapped some pics in case someone can read the codes.

f343cd09d7c5041194d4fa34a3a81ef4.jpg
1e9369c4dff6d3c22547a2aa86960c18.jpg


Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 

moosie

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The yellow (103) is indeed .01 uf.

The orange 223, you guessed it: .022 uf.

Not sure about the green chicklet. Maybe .05uf?
 

moosie

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When you say red and green together, was that parallel or series? You connected both to the lugs, side by side? Or end to end?
 

WilburBufferson

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When you say red and green together, was that parallel or series? You connected both to the lugs, side by side? Or end to end?

Parallel: side by side. I found that this combination produced the loudest HOOP sounds with more mids. In series, the honk was still there but without the volume loss. In parallel, it was a little more stratty position 2 sounding, but still bright and full. I was amazed at how the caps "woke up" the sounds and made them both more present.

I have to say that I've always liked the variatone sounds offered up on Gibson 345s. I am VERY tempted to do the same thing here, though I don't really want to alter this pickguard unless I can get another one ordered/made. Even a 3-way toggle might be cool. I.e., there were some cap values that made the series HOOP sound almost exactly like the position 2 strat sound (bridge and middle).
 

moosie

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The green one is a .056uf as I suspected. Google "2a563k capacitor" to confirm.

I didn't recognize the '2A' part. But three digits and a letter is standard. Here's a converter. The 'K' means +- 10%.

Parallel caps are simple additive, so your green/red in parallel is .056 + .022 = .078uf, +- tolerance.

Here's a calculator for both parallel and series (series is more difficult to calculate, especially if the values aren't equal, or there are more than two).
https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1258035746


Oh, the reason your .078uf cap group was loudest: series caps (the cap, or the pair, is in series with the signal from that pickup) cut bass. They pass highs, and the larger the cap, the deeper they reach down into the freq spectrum, and pass a wider band. With a tone control, highs are being passed to the garbage can (ground), but here they're allowed to pass to the output. So, with bass cuts, the larger the cap, the smaller the cut.

And with such a small freq cut, you retain most of the signal, which is already phase-shifted... so louder, with more mids.
 

WilburBufferson

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Moosie: thanks again. May I ask one further Q? In my research on the variatone pot (which I am not going to pursue), I read somewhere that ceramic caps sound different/better than the ones I have. Values and tolerances aside, is this just folklore/snake oil? Either it passes the freqs or not, right? It's the only other thing I would investigate before I button up this guitar.
 

moosie

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Old caps look cool as hell, and I *want* them to sound better. But do they? Doubtful.

Any perceived difference is at least as likely to be from variance in actual measured value, than the materials and construction.

I've done various tests, but nothing exhaustive, so I just don't know.
 

moosie

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This is pretty much what I'm after right now except positions 2 and 4 swapped around. Could you, or anyone tell me how? Thanks

This is modified a bit from the earlier diagram. As I point out later in this thread, that one was not really correct. It works, but there is no such thing as series HOOP. Instead, the cap is simply a mild bass cut.

This is what I suspect you would want: Series OOP, and Parallel HOOP. And the positions are swapped per your request.

Screen Shot 2022-05-25 at 02.04.08 AM.png
 

telecasual8361

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This is modified a bit from the earlier diagram. As I point out later in this thread, that one was not really correct. It works, but there is no such thing as series HOOP. Instead, the cap is simply a mild bass cut.

This is what I suspect you would want: Series OOP, and Parallel HOOP. And the positions are swapped per your request.

View attachment 986839
Thank you that's very helpful of you. Looks like a very usable set of tones there. And you simply replace the .01 cap with a wire if you ever want a full OOP pos. 4 correct?

Also, is there any difference if you connect the .047 cap to the back of the tone pot vs the volume pot, as I've seen both and never understood it.
 

moosie

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Thank you that's very helpful of you. Looks like a very usable set of tones there. And you simply replace the .01 cap with a wire if you ever want a full OOP pos. 4 correct?

Also, is there any difference if you connect the .047 cap to the back of the tone pot vs the volume pot, as I've seen both and never understood it.
Correct re the wire vs HOOP cap.
Tone circuit, no difference. I can't do much on my phone, but if you search in this subforum for my post on tone circuit equivalents (I think that word should pull it up). I show a couple of diagrams comparing the many ways to do the same darn thing re tone circuit wiring.

In short, both pot shells are grounded (they had better be, anyway). Ground is the same no matter where you connect to it.
 

PennyroyalFrog

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If your pickups have one reverse wound than the other, than doing out of phase will not be hum canceling. It is important to note that the 2 and 4 positions in a strat are not out of phase at all. I’m not sure how that myth got started. If it’s out of phase, you will notice it. Try taking the leads in one of your guitars and switching them and see what the combination of that pickup and another is like. I’m guessing you won’t like it.
 




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