Logos & Clones

[swampyankee]

So I found a Musikraft Tele neck on eBay (clearly described as a Musikraft), with an Esquire decal on the headstock, so I decided to build myself a Parts-o-Equire. Pretty much everything short of the pickup is all Fender used parts sourced from eBay. But I will be the first to tell anyone that asks that it's a parts-guitar, put together by me, to replicate a '56ish Esquire.
I also had a 5E3 Deluxe clone, bought from a builder on eBay. I found a repro Fender badge and tube chart for it. Strictly for my own gratification. I'm not trying to fool anyone, but I consider it more of a nod to the original.

 

[ecoast]

badges?
--we don't need no stinkin' (fender) badges...

my 5E3P+

Image1

• ecoast
• Mar 31, 2017

 

[muscmp]

That's why I've never understood the often used "well, I'm never going to sell it!" You may not, but when you get run over by that semi tonight your wife will have it at the pawn shop tomorrow.

This question comes up all the time, but usually in relation to decals on headstocks in other parts of the forum. The answer is simple - if you don't own the trademark/copyright you don't have the right to use it. Doesn't matter if you never plan to sell it or not (which is the excuse everyone gives) since you could keel over tonight and your girlfriend pawns it tomorrow.

ok, which is it? wife or girlfriend? or do you have both?

 

[corliss1]

Ha! I'm actually getting married soonish, but just used various words in my example.

 

[GGardner]

Ha! I'm actually getting married soonish, but just used various words in my example.

Some unsolicited advice: Go out and make the big gear purchases before you get married. Get the Rickenbacker and Dr. Z now before she gets veto power. Trust me on this one.

 

[corliss1]

Doing repair work gets me access to pretty much whatever. If anything I need to get rid of stuff.

 

[Phrygian77]

The Princeton Reverb that I built to sell looked like this...

My Bassman looks like this...

If I die, and someone needs to sell it, I would hope they would at least be honest about what it is and isn't.

 

[Phrygian77]

That's why I've never understood the often used "well, I'm never going to sell it!" You may not, but when you get run over by that semi tonight your wife will have it at the pawn shop tomorrow.

My thought is, your wife or girlfriend should be aware of what it really is, and if you're gone and they really need to sell it, then they should be honest about what it is. If you don't trust them to do that, then you may want to be looking for a new relationship.

 

[corliss1]

And that's where the issue is. That's simply not a reasonable expectation. She certainly doesn't know what every tool in my toolbox is. Why do I have a box full of widgets here, and a box of slightly different widgets there? Short of keeping an excel sheet of every modification that's every been done to every piece of gear ever, that just doesn't make sense.

Copyright has nothing to do with being honest. It's about the right to copy things, and if you aren't the copyright holder you simply doesn't have that right.

 

[Phrygian77]

And that's where the issue is. That's simply not a reasonable expectation. She certainly doesn't know what every tool in my toolbox is. Why do I have a box full of widgets here, and a box of slightly different widgets there? Short of keeping an excel sheet of every modification that's every been done to every piece of gear ever, that just doesn't make sense.

Copyright has nothing to do with being honest. It's about the right to copy things, and if you aren't the copyright holder you simply doesn't have that right.

There is no issue, because guess what? I don't care. No one is going to come after me for building a clone of a Fender amp. My loved ones are aware that I built the amp and that it's not a Fender. If one of them chooses to sell it and misrepresent what it is, well that's on them.

 

[CapnCrunch]

The actual circuits from vintage Fender amps are not protected by patent or copyright. Since they are not, there is no problem in copying them, legally, morally or otherwise. Unlike vintage amp circuits, the Fender trademark is copyright protected as is the actual design of the various Fender headstocks (a pesky little detail that many on this board conveniently, forget about, at least in my opinion). I think that if you're going to bust someone's balls about using a logo or a nameplate on an amp, you shouldn't show off your DIY Tele with your "Ferden" Logo and an exact copy of a vintage Tele headstock, or tolerate the use of a proprietary headstock shape by just about every single DIY'er in the Tele Home Depot.

Interestingly, in guitars the Fender logo still imparts some value, at least over a Squier. When it comes to amps, not so much. I think one of the reasons that this issue doesn't get beat to death like it does in the home depot section, is that makers who put a Fender nameplate on an amp out of respect for Leo, are actually reducing the value of their custom hand made "Boutique" amp. I look at it as free advertising, though none of my tweeds have a Fender nameplate on them. In the end, I'm with Phrygian, I just don't care.

 

[awasson]

Yeah this seems to be a non-issue.

Some day I’d like to make a nice copy of a tweed amp. If it comes to that, I’d like to get as close to original as possible, like one of @keithb7 ‘s amps. Sure it’ll look like a real McCoy from the front but I don’t use vintage components... I use modern metal film resistors and polystyrene caps, so any idiot who bothers to look will see that it’s a copy, Clone or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Snfoilhat]

The first few cabinets I built or bought for my homebrew amps, I used the metal Fender logo in the upper left corner of the grill (all my stuff is loosely brown/blonde cosmetics), not because I particularly like branding in general or Fender the company specifically, but because the left corner badge plays an aesthetic role. Without it the grill can be too regular and symmetrical, and something seems missing.

But I have been lurking Tele Home Depot for even longer than I have been posting in Shock Brothers, and the anti-trademark infringement ethic of that forum helped over time to convince me to get used to not seeing the logo! So I'm not an independent data point, nosmo. Now my grillcloths are bare and my faceplates have no punny Fender-derived names, but just the brief circuit description and city of origin.

My brain still wants to see something on the blank (a year so far) headstock of my Warmoth neck, despite the wood being beautiful.

 

[King Fan]

The first few cabinets I built or bought for my homebrew amps, I used the metal Fender logo in the upper left corner of the grill (all my stuff is loosely brown/blonde cosmetics), not because I particularly like branding in general or Fender the company specifically, but because the left corner badge plays an aesthetic role. Without it the grill can be too regular and symmetrical, and something seems missing.

But I have been lurking Tele Home Depot for even longer than I have been posting in Shock Brothers, and the anti-trademark infringement ethic of that forum helped over time to convince me to get used to not seeing the logo! So I'm not an independent data point, nosmo. Now my grillcloths are bare and my faceplates have no punny Fender-derived names, but just the brief circuit description and city of origin.

My brain still wants to see something on the blank (a year so far) headstock of my Warmoth neck, despite the wood being beautiful.

Just right about the upper left corner of the grill. Like you, for a long time I had a hankering to see something there -- something shiny, diagonal, script, with a tail. And like you, I got over it -- blank grills rule.

But blank Warmoth headstocks? Those scream out for a script waterslide decal ("Tincaster", perhaps?).

 

[nosmo]

I knew that would stir things up. That was not my intension, but it is entertaining.

These are all the same arguments the guitar builders use. Valid points on both sides. I pretty much think you should be able to do whatever you want. Until it has an adverse effect on someone else.

Fraud bothers me. So that Squire beater that was reconfigured to look like a vintage Fender is great as long as you know what it is, but it sure doesn’t have the value of the original.

An amp, on the other hand, built to the original specs, with new components probably has the same if not more value. If it has the logo or not.

Certainly not accusing anyone of anything. All the amps posted in this thread are outright beautiful. I’d be proud to have any of them.


Thanks for all the responses.

 

[The Blood]

The key question is whether it cuts into a company’s income. Mimicry is a form of flattery until it gets into someone’s income in my opinion.

In playing music, it’s OK to copy someone as long as you give credit where it’s due.

 

[arcticbreaze]

most of my builds START with fender circuits like the 5e3deluxe, but by the time I sub in 6sl7 octals and all the changes to make that work right, re-voice with Brit sounding speakers (WGS et65) it's no longer a fender and MY name goes on the front.
Hey it was good enough for Marshall

 

[zook]

I built it, not Fender.

 

[motor_city_tele]

I build my amps in the spirit of Leo.

I sourced the parts as the cheapest I could.

Everything from the eyelets to the PT.

I would never stick a Fender logo on any of my projects, it just don't seem right to me. The circuit ... that's another thing.

Here's a tip. You know those Christmas lights that don't work anymore? Snip Snip, instant hookup wire.

 

[awasson]

The key question is whether it cuts into a company’s income. Mimicry is a form of flattery until it gets into someone’s income in my opinion.

In playing music, it’s OK to copy someone as long as you give credit where it’s due.

That’s a philosophy I can relate to. That’s exactly the way I look at it too.