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Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by boneyguy, Sep 8, 2019.
"Beat It" 1950's style. That's all.
What you're describing has more to do with the feel than the count though. Counting in 12 produces the same result as counting in 4 ....you still wind up with half a bar when the song goes from the 'B7' back to the 'E'. If you continue the 12/8 count at the point where he does the descending Em pent lick you wind up with the 'D' strums shifting from beats 7 and 10 to beats 1 and 4.
Nah, there is a measure of 6/8 after the B7 and when the descent hits the low E string, it is beat 1.
My point really is that you can't count a compound meter time in straight four, and if you try to write it on a staff, you end up using all triplets. The strums in "Rumble" are dotted quarters and multiples thereof.
Listen to the ride cymbal. Steady eighths, 12 to a bar.
Right....so you've confirmed what I've said. A bar of 6/8 is half a bar of 12/8....so it doesn't matter whether you're counting in 4 or 12 the bar count is still the same....counting in 12 gives you the triplet feel, which I would agree with you, is the feel of the song. My OP didn't have to do with the feel but with the bar count....but you are the first to point out, and I think accurately, that the song does have a 12/8 feel. Thanks!
It matters because of the rhythm of the tune. The drummer is definitely not playing in 4/4.
Here's a 4/4 groove. Try to play "Rumble" to it. Sounds totally wrong.
When Wray composed "Rumble" he and his band were trying to work up "The Stroll" by the Diamonds, a definite 12/8 dance number.
I did not say the 12/8 feel it didn't matter....in fact, I agreed with you...please, go back and read my post to you.....I said it didn't matter to the bar count....AND I thanked you for pointing out the 12/8 feel....I'm not sure how I can write any more clearly when I respond....
I knew that, I was just saying why it matters how you count it. I wasn't really arguing the bar count point with you. I'm really bolstering my argument for the others who say it's in 4/4.
If it helps any, when the descending lick starts I think of that as beat 1 of measure 11 in a blues form. Measure 10 is a 'half' bar or a bar of 6/8 (or just two beats if you're counting in 4).
In my years of playing and personal listening research of early blues, R&B and rock, I've found that there's a lot of oddities in structure. Many little Richard tunes have an extra half bar at the end of the verses. John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters are all over the place form wise. Hell, even Joan Jett's I Love Rock and Roll has a bar of 3/4 when the chorus repeats.
I'm all for analysis but sometimes it's just, this tune has an odd bar in it or hey, this is an 11 bar blues or in Link's case an 11 and a half bar blues. That's probably part of what makes it cool. If I really separate myself from any intellectual aspect of it, it sounds dangerous and edgy and I think the odd bar structure lends to that.
What a f'n great song!
Ken, did you just say what I said, only better?
Bluegrass has quite a few extra beats as well. Check out "Little Maggie" and "Daniel Prayed" by the Stanley Brothers and see how long it takes you to figure out the timing.
I don't know. I didn't read through everything . But yeah, I think we're talking about the same part of the song. You said the chords, I said the bar numbers. Which illustrates my point - you think of it the way you think of it.
Celtic stuff is all over the place structure wise too. Similar to the Bluegrass you mentioned. Funny thing is ... they don't think it's weird at all.
It's just what you get used to.
It is a seriously f'n great song!!
I really like the live version someone posted...even more menacing than the original to my ear. As well as the odd bar structure I think its slow, methodical, insistent, grinding tempo is also menacing......there's nothing particularly light or joyful about it...it's coming after you and it's not going to give up!! lol
Strawberry Fields Forever changes time signatures several times. It's mostly 4/4 but the "Strawberry fields forever!" part is 3/4 and there are a couple weird extra measures too.
It gets even crazier......
I ran across that 1974 Fillmore cut by accident one day, boneyguy. I agree with your observations there, and it seems to me that Wray is really enjoying what the more modern equipment allowed him to do. He stalks around on that stage exuding an energy that fits his tune perfectly....sort of like a big cat that knows the prey is helpless, eh?
Then, there is this.....we each have our different facets, fight?
Don't count it, go on feel.
When I first started DJing I couldn't beat match to save my life when I was trying to count. When I stopped thinking and just went on feel everything clicked.
We're not talking about classical music here, go on feel
Not to mention Link's dress, pompadour, and demeanor. It was kind of a similar attitude example of how Mick Jagger stared right into the camera and crooned "I can't get no satisfaction"