Lindy Fralin pickups are HOW MUCH?

[zsullivan38]

I'm making a very large assumption here (I know, I know), but I'd guess that an operation like Bootstrap is a side business, with pretty much no support staff. I'd also guess that people like Fralin and Lawrence are paying their staff well (actually sharing the wealth and taking care of your workers, what a concept!), breeding loyalty and consistent quality.

I would think that those costs of doing business would offset the economies of scale part of the equation. Or at least it'd be close. I don't think the big ones being the same price or slightly more expensive would be nearly as frustrating as it is to see them at 1.5-2x the cost. And really, when all you do is pickups, it cannot be THAT expensive to operate. One HR person, one business person, one marketing person would really be all you need on the office worker part of things. A lot of operations would probably be fine having HR and business being done by the same individual. I think where it goes crazy is they start paying more marketing people so they have to raise their prices but the marketing expertise makes up for it. That's just a general problem with our modern society. Everyone is trying to sell you something and there's an entire industry built around making that easier for them to do.

I saw a comment somewhere once that people these days are always being sold on something, but never being sold to. I think that's pretty accurate and highlights the prevalence of the sort of "cast a wide net and you'll have some takers regardless of price" mentality that a lot of "boutique" companies in every industry seem to have these days.

 

[dollycaster]

I would love a Fralin split blade tele set (or even just one). But, at $135 a piece, there's no way.

When I was assembling my parts Tele, I wanted a swamp ash body, a real nitro finish, a roasted maple neck, and high-quality parts all around. Not extravagant, just things that I know work for me. That included Split Blades. It’s their design, no one else makes them, and it seemed cheaping out on the pickups would’ve been silly considering what everything else was going to cost. And I’ve always had great experiences with Fralin, since buying my first set of Vintage Hots nearly 30 years ago.

Not every guitar is going to get fancy parts. But for an electric guitar, seems pickups are a good place to splurge. I tend to agree that for something like a Strat single coil, I might not be inclined to spend a ton upgrading a modestly priced guitar. Honestly, if I had a midpriced Strat with functioning pickups, I doubt I’d exchange one set of single coils for another.

 

[FlarbNarb]

I'm making a very large assumption here (I know, I know), but I'd guess that an operation like Bootstrap is a side business, with pretty much no support staff. I'd also guess that people like Fralin and Lawrence are paying their staff well (actually sharing the wealth and taking care of your workers, what a concept!), breeding loyalty and consistent quality.

There are a number of small scale winders that have enough of a product line, customizability and the quality that I don't think they are all side hustles. Enough of most of these folks' product is out there and known that I feel confident that they are actually making their living doing this. To your point yes more staff means more overhead and your idea that sharing "wealth" and taking care of said staff is not a new or foreign concept. Any successful business in the small to medium realm does this because it's not just good business but it's GREAT business to retain your valuable staff. (Business administration 101)

Now if producing more product ends in a higher cost per unit, then you are not a very good business person. The point of volume is to reduce cost per unit. Buying in bulk result in reduced cost per unit almost always. That's how things work in manufacturing. And I take issue with your assumption (implied) that small businesses do not take care of those they work with, as a small business operator myself, I can tell you their have been times I've gone hungry to ensure my staff didn't so keep your condescension to yourself. Your assumptions are indeed wrong on multiple levels.

Consistent quality is not the exclusive domain of large scale manufacture. In fact, that quality is what drives the success of smaller and even micro level manufacturing. Rolls Royce vs. GM. Which has the better reputation for quality? Which has the reputation for nearly unlimited customization? Which has the reputation for producing pinnacle level (masterpiece level) products with unparalleled attention to detail? Which has the highest median price tag? Get it?

That's why I am curious as to how the mid level mass producers like Duncan, Dimarzio, compare with semi custom (meaning plenty of stock on the shelf but can be made to order) builders like Lollar, Novak, Fralin and full on made to order like Bootstrap, Planet Tone, and many others.

 

[Ron R]

Consistent quality is not the exclusive domain of large scale manufacture.

I'm not saying that it is. But consistent quality across say 10 people who are winding is a bit more challenging than getting that consistency with 2 people winding. And keeping that consistency, well, consistent, relies on limiting staff turnover (ideally eliminating turnover). To do that, you need to be treating those employees well enough that they're incentivized to stay long term.

 

[FlarbNarb]

I'm not saying that it is. But consistent quality across say 10 people who are winding is a bit more challenging than getting that consistency with 2 people winding. And keeping that consistency, well, consistent, relies on limiting staff turnover (ideally eliminating turnover). To do that, you need to be treating those employees well enough that they're incentivized to stay long term.

That logic doesn’t work because one problem in 10 is less costly than one problem in 2. You really need to take an economics class

 

[Ron R]

That logic doesn’t work because one problem in 10 is less costly than one problem in 2. You really need to take an economics class

No, I'm good, thanks.

 

[FlarbNarb]

the other part you miss is that the size of the shop has less to do with employee retention as does compensation. Pay rate is a function of the job performed not the number of people doing the job. There is a degree of latitude but skilled workers know what their skills are worth and so they expect to be paid within a range of that worth regionality might come into play due to cost of living differences but still within a range.

If you are extremely good and have the performance to prove it you will be at the top end of the range. You’re new and have not honed your skills as sharply and you’ll be towards the bottom of the range and grow earning potential as you grow in skill. Simple.

Since if your shop need to charge twice as much as every other shop to stay in the black, then you suck as a business operator. If you charge twice as much because every body wants your stuff that’s great marketing. That’s called the free market system or capitalism.

There’s your introduction to economics. I’ll send you my bill.;-)

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Lindy winds great pups. $315 for 3 isn't bad.

 

[ScatteredSeeds]

I’m a fan of Fralin pickups. I have them in my St. Blues Bluesmaster II, my 50th Anniversary Strat and my Black Guard Tele. In all three guitars, the pickups took the guitar’s sound to another level. Yes they are expensive (they were expensive when I bought my first set about 15 years ago) but they are worth it.

 

[Shorty Medlock]

One of the things that makes an original Fender so special are the hand wound pickups... no real counter on the machine so those wonderful ladies who wound the pickups used their eyes and their experience to know when they had enough wire on the pickup.

Inconsistant? You bet but what a great sound when they got it right and most did.

What was the name of the most famous of those ladies?

 

[fender4life]

I'm making a very large assumption here (I know, I know), but I'd guess that an operation like Bootstrap is a side business, with pretty much no support staff. I'd also guess that people like Fralin and Lawrence are paying their staff well (actually sharing the wealth and taking care of your workers, what a concept!), breeding loyalty and consistent quality.

Actually he does have a staff. If i recall something like 5 others winding for him and they are always backed up with a 4-6 week lead time, even shutting down new orders at times due to being so backed up. He may have hired more people since, i dunno. I'm sure it started off as u describe tho and because the quality of his pickups is very good and prices stupid low, that lead to what the business quickly became. He obviously built his business on the notion that there is so much competition the only way to make it is sell cheaper than anyone without compromising quality and work long hard hours. When a field is as crowded as pickups it's the only way to make it because most winders are not willing to sell large quantities at crazy low prices because it demands hard work at long hours, but thats why i think he did it that way. In any crowded field you need to go above and beyond or your chances of success are very low.

 

[fjfinamore]

I bought my first set of Fralin Vintage Hot pickups in 1996. They were considered expensive then. As you can see by the invoice, they were $220. I called the phone number talked to someone, it could have been Lindy himself, told him what sound I wanted. Sent a money order and received the pickups a few weeks later.

After 29 years, the price for a set of pickups is $315, a price increase of $95 after almost 3 decades. Considering the quality you get, they are worth the price. Lollars are even more expensive, and when you get to Ron Ellis prices, in comparison, Fralins are a bargain. Considering Fralin's reputation as a winder and the quality of his products. you may not want to pay the prices, that is up to each individual, and the pickups may not match the sound in your head, but Fralin pickups are consistently of a certain level of sound quality and are well-crafted. Yes you can get cheaper pickups, and now there seems to be a glut in the market. But when a set of Fender Custom Shop '54 Strat pickups list for $314.99, I don't think his prices are unreasonable. Yes, you can get decent Chinese-made pickups that can give you a sound you want. But the older I get, the less I want to experiment. If I want another set of pickups for a strat, another set of Fralins would always be in consideration, depending the sound I wanted.

 

[gonzo]

Love my tele bridge split blades at blues output.

 

[cholula69]

One of the things that makes an original Fender so special are the hand wound pickups... no real counter on the machine so those wonderful ladies who wound the pickups used their eyes and their experience to know when they had enough wire on the pickup.

Inconsistant? You bet but what a great sound when they got it right and most did.

What was the name of the most famous of those ladies?

Abigail Ybarra and Josefina Campos

 

[fender4life]

I bought my first set of Fralin Vintage Hot pickups in 1996. They were considered expensive then. As you can see by the invoice, they were $220. I called the phone number talked to someone, it could have been Lindy himself, told him what sound I wanted. Sent a money order and received the pickups a few weeks later.

View attachment 1391547

After 29 years, the price for a set of pickups is $315, a price increase of $95 after almost 3 decades. Considering the quality you get, they are worth the price. Lollars are even more expensive, and when you get to Ron Ellis prices, in comparison, Fralins are a bargain. Considering Fralin's reputation as a winder and the quality of his products. you may not want to pay the prices, that is up to each individual, and the pickups may not match the sound in your head, but Fralin pickups are consistently of a certain level of sound quality and are well-crafted. Yes you can get cheaper pickups, and now there seems to be a glut in the market. But when a set of Fender Custom Shop '54 Strat pickups list for $314.99, I don't think his prices are unreasonable. Yes, you can get decent Chinese-made pickups that can give you a sound you want. But the older I get, the less I want to experiment. If I want another set of pickups for a strat, another set of Fralins would always be in consideration, depending the sound I wanted.

Van zandts are an even far greater deal and IMO better pickups. They are the only strat pups i'e ever found that have be 100% satisfactory for me. No other set has come close for vintage killer strat tone with that percussive attack that makes vintage strat tone so great. Of course thats subjective but 1-there were the rage at TGP for years, 2-SRV used them, and 3-they are a lot cheaper than fralins these days. I've used then 25 years. There NOTHING in the world of guitar gear i have ever used anywhere near that long. IMO they're perfection at a ridiculous price. I like the vintage + for N/M and blues for the bridge. https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=van zandt stratocaster

 

[David PNW]

I can't justify the prices for any of the big name brand pickup winders.

An amazing Bootstrap Jaguar pickup cost me under $35.
A classic sounding, high quality alnico telecaster bridge pickup from G&L was $70.
Bill Lawrence Wilde pickups are maximum $80 a piece with many in the $50-70 range (never tried these but they're next on my list and only get great reviews from what I've seen).

All made in the USA.

I would love a Fralin split blade tele set (or even just one). But, at $135 a piece, there's no way. They cannot be built that much better. Their winders's time cannot be that much more valuable than any of the people making the above products to justify a labor cost difference. In fact, the scale at which Fralin operates should make it cheaper to build pickups than most of those referenced above.

Just crazy to me. It's wires, metal, magnets, and a bit of plastic to hold it all together. The parts aren't that expensive, and it's not rocket science.

I'm sure their products are wonderful - I've pretty much only heard good things about Fralin - but still... This same sentiment applies to all the big ones that charge as much as they do. The pickup market has just gotten crazy.

If you think pickups went up in price, check the price of guitar cases!

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

I bought my first set of Fralin Vintage Hot pickups in 1996. They were considered expensive then. As you can see by the invoice, they were $220

That's consistent with what I was willing to and did pay back around then. And doing some math, today's price is less than inflation, if that matters.

Its great that there are more budget-friendly options out there, be they pickups or pedals. But I also totally get a willingness to pay a higher price for a product that has consistently delivered over the years.

 

[rand z]

I get all my hummies from DiMarzio. Doesn’t matter what kind of sound or style I’m looking for, they make a model that does it. And they’re pretty affordable, crazy consistent, and always high quality.

Yeah.0

I have pu's from Lollar, Harmonic Design, Wilde, Duncan, Barden and others.

All are pretty good at their given price point(s).

But, for some reason, the DiMarzio pu's seem to have a certain "sound" that I identify with.

They hit some sort of of "consonant" tone that is pleasing to my ear.

Maybe it's because they've been around for so long... we've been "hearing" them forever.

A few years ago, I had a conversation with Sonny Landreth, who likes and uses them in his Strats, to weave the sparkling notes/tones within his intricate slide-work.

It might be an example of their tone(s).

Strange...


imo.

 

[Jakedog]

Yeah.0

I have pu's from Lollar, Harmonic Design, Wilde, Duncan, Barden and others.

All are pretty good at their given price point(s).

But, for some reason, the DiMarzio pu's seem to have a certain "sound" that I identify with.

They hit some sort of of "consonant" tone that is pleasing to my ear.

Maybe it's because they've been around for so long... we've been "hearing" them forever.

A few years ago, I had a conversation with Sonny Landreth, who likes and uses them in his Strats, to weave the sparkling notes/tones within his intricate slide-work.

It might be an example of their tone(s).

Strange...


imo.

I can’t really identify what it is in technical terms. They have a certain airiness and bounce to them that other pickups don’t have. I discovered them years ago. I went to grab a Seymour Duncan ‘59 for a project I was finishing, and the shop was out of Duncans. I ended up with a PAF Pro because I was in a hurry and wanted to put the guitar together. I’ve been a fan ever since. I’ve used the HS models, the Virtual models, the rails, I have a Les Paul Spc with a pair of their soap bar sized humbuckers, and loads of full sized hummies. My number one is loaded with a PAF Joe and Air Norton. I’ve never had a DiMarzio I didn’t like.

 

[hdvades]

Good point on the language.

Although, on reflection, it occurs to me that one might need to have a lifespan that exceeds 50 years to know what 50 years is like.

Good point. I'm on my second month of Medicare A/B so I can say I know a thing or two about fifty years haha. I wouldn't mind swapping a 5% underwound Fralin P90 for the Gibson P90 my stock Gibson LP Jr has either.