1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Lifespan of good power tubes?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by telewacked, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. Tim Swartz

    Tim Swartz Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Location:
    Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes
    In all fairness to Mr. Pittman, I don't think too many people much cared about matched tubes in guitar amps before he came along 25 years ago or so, heck, I'd just go down to Rat Shack and return the lifetime guarantee tube when it died and get another. He actually probably plays a role in the tube amp renaisence (SP) that has taken place over the last 15 years or so. The Tube Amp Books have been hugely popular, and yes, there certainly is a lot blatant GT marketting going on in the book, but, Mr. Pittman is first and foremost a marketting guy, and appears to be quite good at it. How can someone positioning there products over-hype it?
     
  2. Tremo

    Tremo Banned

    Posts:
    3,802
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    You know Mark, I could care less if you're ticked. I don't recall having called anyone an "idiot". If I did use that word, please quote the specific post, or shut yer yap. All you seem to want to do is piss and moan about anyone criticizing GT and who will stand up to and debunk your GT cheerleading. You like a guy there at GT, great. Regardless, they charge more than anyone else, for the SAME tubes. And GT isn't the only tube dealer that screens his tubes. Lard Valve has probably the most rigorous screening of the dealers, with his full power hammer tests. Ruby does a good job screening their tubes. I'm sure KCA does as well. In short, there's several other guys providing screened tubes other than GT.

    You seem to get yer panties in a wadd over my profile on AW, what a useless and silly and totally irrelavant thing to get upset over. Again, if you don't like it, that's your problem, I don't give a rat's rear end. The level of technical competence over there is far greater than you'll get on a censored board. Guys there call a spade a spade. If you're thin skinned, you may get yer feelings hurt. Go cry to mommy if that's the case. If you have a legit question, you'll get a no-nonsense answer there. It may not be what you want to hear, but it's valid info.

    It's good to know that you do have an electronics background and served our country honorably. Well, I also have an electronics background, I'm a degreed electronics engineer, and have over 26 years of professional experience, and I was even in school when tubes and tube circuits were still being taught. I also have extensive experience in *designing* (as opposed to field troubleshooting someone else's design) electronics equipment for military airborne and naval applications, so I know what I'm doing "under the hood", and designing for severe environments and reliability concerns. I have also worked for 2 companies that made military tubes. Yeah, they were linear beam microwave tubes, but still "tubes" none the less. In comparison, these guitar amp tubes which work up to maybe a couple hundred Megahertz, are simple. Try making a tube that works to 18 GHz. Regardless of all this crap, GT's tubes are the same tubes as everyone else is selling, their orange logo on the side doesn't mean squat about them being superior to the same tube you would buy from LV.

    If you want to cheerlead for GT, again, more power to ya. If I want to say that Pittman overcharges and overhypes, that's my business, and again, if you don't like it, take a hike. And as far as me not starting this thread, so what? I didn't see the guy who did start it ask that I not participate. Indeed, he was soliciting information, so I have as much right to post my opinions as do you.

    If you're ticked off, too bad. Get over it.
     
  3. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    I misunderstood about the 6L6GE then, sorry.

    China is not a bad name at my house though, at least with tubes. The 12AX7C (9th generation) tubes I put in my Pro Tube Pro Reverb are the best preamp tubes I have tried in that amp. Better than JJ or others to my ears. Musical, linear and sweet when distorting. The 6L6GE's are also a great sounding tube as well and one I would recommend to anyone. The ratings for the China tubes (these versions) are some of the best rating I can find for tubes. In both cases I think the tubes are GT only for the purchase. These tubes combined with a Cannibus Rex speaker have made this amp go from the ok-good range to great.

    I am sure I paid extra for the GT name. I did for my Fender amps, Fender guitars and my Seymour Duncan pickups as well. In all cases I am glad I did as it is the best sounding rig I have had ... ever. I have tried a few rigs over 20 years.
     
  4. cg73cmc

    cg73cmc Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    862
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Treem -- the totality of your comments amounts to nothing more than you suggesting that anyone who uses GT's are idiots. Go back and read your posts. Everytime someone jumps up to oppose your opinion (and it IS an opinion -- not FACT as you keep stating) -- then you haul in and call 'em a "cheerleader" or derride them in some other manner. (By the way, my panties belong to ME -- keep your eyes off 'em! :D)

    You keep "questioning" the fact that I claim to know nothing about Aspin Pittman. Message there is -- "Look out folks, Mark is a GT plant!". Well boss, why don't you just take what I claim at face value since there is no way you could know otherwise? Since there is no real reason for you to suspect otherwise? Why would you insinuate that I'm lying about my affiliations? Fact is, I DO KNOW a lot about Aspin Pittman now -- since you brought his name up and decided to slander him (which by the way is against TDPRI policy). Since you've brought his name up I have read LOADS about him. But I didn't know anything about him before then. Unlike you, the service I get from a company is more important to me than the personality at the top of it. So there ya go -- I've been using GT's all these years and didn't even know who their CEO was! Unbelievable. Then again, I drive a Saturn and don't know who the CEO of that company is either. By the way, who's in charge of Fender these days? Cause I don't know that either! Your fixation on Aspen Pittman appears to me to be irrational and perhaps centered in envy and resentment. But I'll leave that to you and your analyst to sort out.

    As far as me being being "ticked" -- it appears I'm not nearly as redlined as you are right now because, read your last post -- still using "name calling" but now you're resorting to borderline language as well. Well, I guess this is to be expected from you.

    As far as my military affiliation, I don't seek or desire any special consideration for that. As far as you being an "engineer" -- well I'm sure you're familiar with the "engineer vs tech" arguement that always goes on between engineers and techs about who has more practical knowledge -- no need to bore the folks on TDPRI with that one. In any case, it wouldn't mean anything anyway -- since a sharp engineer is always better than a weak tech and vice versa.

    As far as your profile -- I was talking about your profile HERE -- on TDPRI. I have no idea what your profile says over on the "We Hate GT and don't have a life" amp discussion board -- I never looked at it.

    As far as me "shuttin" my "yap" -- Let me think about that for a moment ....

    uh....

    No.
     
  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka ---------------------------

    Posts:
    13,841
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Location:
    Del Floria's Tailor Shop
    All I know is Groove Tubes are overhyped. And John has helped me out more than a few times with amp related stuff. He's an incredibly valuable resource, and despite his sometimes gruff demeanor, I trust his advice. So far, he's never been wrong. :D
     
  6. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    I can agree they are overhyped. As are Fender and a lot of other products. The person in question may also be a great deal of help in many ways. In this case the over exaggeration of the response seemed to need to ba balanced. If it had been "they are over hyped and you can get the same product elsewhere" it would have been great information. However, the way it was presented makes me question the senders reputation. Gruff is one thing, but some of the information presented went well past gruff. I would not otherwise have responded at all. I do not care any more for GT than any other complay. A lot of folks do need soild information. The exaggeration is not solid information it is misleading.
     
  7. Ptrallan01

    Ptrallan01 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    857
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Okay and now for us beginners

    I just put new preamp and power tubes in a Pignose GV40. I use it about 8 hours a week. I believe but am not sure because I'm an idiot that the tubes are 3 12ax7s and 2 6L6s. On a rough order of magnitude how long can I expect them to last?

    That was the original question! It is interesting to hear you two guys "discuss" your points of view and who's rude and who's entitled but its gotten way over the top. Let's call a truce, go back to talking about guitars, amps, tone and the thing that got us here to begin with TELE'S.

    Love,

    Peter
     
  8. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    Re: Okay and now for us beginners

    A long time. Several years probably. Will they sound better if replaced sooner ... probably.
     
  9. Red Planet

    Red Planet Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    421
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    North Georgia
    Checkthis out!

    Here is a link to a very interesting post. Its wrather long so it'll take awhile to read. I dont claim to be an expert on this subject but in my opinion GT is very shady in their business practises. Leading folks on about the origion of their products or omitting certain info and letting others conect the dots in a different manner than the actual truth is downright imoral.

    Notice in this post HE still did not say exactly whats in the 6L6's but you can pretty much figure it out. He finally did come clean about the new 12AX7's but look at their website dont mention anything about where these are made. They arent making anything and they seem to be creating a firestorm frenzy without spelling it all out and selling some product in the process.

    I cancelled my order and will not buy another product from them ever. Knowingly allowing customers to be mislead about products they are spending their hard earned money on is not right. I have a right to know where items I puchase are manufactured. Or I at least have a right not to buy products from a company that wants to let its products origions be over in the corner in the shady area of the room. Where you cant quite make it out.

    JJ tubes I have found are great modern day Tubes. Very good quality and very good sounding tubes. I have yet to get a bad JJ tube. I have gotten bad tubes from a number of other sources including GT.

    The Link http://65.54.184.250/cgi-bin/linkrd...rd/showthread.php?threadid=24249&goto=newpost
     
  10. Red Planet

    Red Planet Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    421
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    North Georgia
  11. Red Planet

    Red Planet Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    421
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    North Georgia
    I cant get the link to come up. Dont know why but the moral to the story is you decide whose products you buy not me or anyone else.
     
  12. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    Well, I can't speak for anyone else but the origin of a product is far less important to me than whether it works as described. I really do not care a great deal. In the case of my 6L6GE and the 12AX7C both work great and as described. So I do not feel mislead. At elast no more than I do from any other company.

    Remember the Fender verneer guitars? This was way more misleading to me.
     
  13. Red Planet

    Red Planet Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    421
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    North Georgia
    I dont disagree with you. I dont care where something is made. I do want to know where a product I buy is made. That includes everything in it around it and assembly.

    What I was upset about is the way they went about it. To me if you come out and say " We have this new tube out that is really good and is made in China " that is one thing but to just let everyone draw their own conclusions which happen to be the wrong conclusion is wrong. Misleading is an understatement on how they went about this and that leads me to believe there is a reason for being misleading. What that reason is I dont know but I'm not willing to spend my hard earned money just find out.

    When I was checking into this I drew the conclusion that these tubes were 100 percent made in USA and ordered a buch of em. When I found out they werent I felt misled. Then I started looking around to figure out what the deal was. At the time looking on their website they used statements like they bought the tooling to make it look like they were making these there. Which couldnt be further from the truth. Whatever you think about the deal they were missleading about these things. There is no doubt in my mind about that. There must be a reason for this tactic and it may not be in my interest for me to be mislead.

    If you look at their website (the last time I looked at it) all other tubes origions are listed. Some say made in Russia some say made in China but these (12ax7-M) say nothing of it. Why? Then if you look at Myles posts on The Gear Page he finally even eludes that the 6L6's are not 100 perecent USA and dosent want to elaborate in this much. Which tells me there is something they are hiding about these Made in the USA Tubes also.What I dont know but like I said I dont spend my money on suspect Marketting Ploys.

    For you guys that are defending their Marketing Practises I have some real estate I'd like to sell you. You know Beacfront Property in Arizona. Its just like the real thing only not as much water and waves. :lol:

    To me it looks like they are wanting to get a Premium Price for a Chinese made Tube. Premium as far as Chinese is concerned not other makes. Which then in turn helps to drive the market price for everything better up more. That is not in my best interest.

    I'm not certain of their motives and dont mean to act like I am, only they know that. I'm just suspect and everything thing I have written is just my Opinion so if you disagree it is a free Country last time I checked.

    I wish all nothing but the best tone, tubes, guitars, and fun in playing. Its your money spend it how you choose.
     
  14. Tim Swartz

    Tim Swartz Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Location:
    Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes
    I think the motives/reasons are very obvious - Caveat emptor.

    For me, there is no substitute for NOS power tubes (and the price is typically not too far off the booteek toobz) ... and for preamp tubes, used/tested RCA, GE, Tungsol, Mullard, Telefunken, Brimar, Tungsram and others are typically far better sounding than any of the current crop of sonically compromised garbage.
     
  15. Tremo

    Tremo Banned

    Posts:
    3,802
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I agree with Tim re preamp tubes. Guys, there is NOTHING wrong with using good, used pulls of American, Brit or German made tubes. First off, they do need to be tested to make sure they still test comfortably above minimum spec and there are no other problems (noise, gas, etc...), but once they get past that, you have a tube that you know will sound good, it will remain quiet, and will probably outlast anything in current production. I run several used pulls in my amps and they just keep on plugging and chugging. In fact, in my 64 DR, all the preamp tubes are used pulls of Mullards, Telefunkens, RCAs and GE 5-Stars. They've been in there for years, they still all test well above minimum, and they sound great. No need to change out a tube that still tests strong and sounds good!

    Also, why spend the bux on an overhyped (misleading marketing BS) and overpriced Chinese made tube from Boob Toobz (6L6GE, very little real American content) when you can get NOS for close to the same price. Or, if you want to use Chinese, the guys from TAD have a copy of the RCA blackplate that is pulling in some very favorable reviews.

    I suspect that BoobToobz 12AX7M is probably also made in China. Will it's actual sound and lifespan justify the price and hype????

    I hear that JJ is working on a long plate 12AX7, I'm curious how that will sound. The Sovtek 12AX7LPS sounded good, and so does the Ei 12AX7 which is a Telefunken knockoff.
     
  16. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    9,781
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    Lawndale CA
    Same here - I keep boxes of them around, a couple calibrated tube testers, and haven't bought "new" tubes of any kind in ages.
     
  17. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    To each their own. I like what I am doing, and see no reason to fault GT any more than I would see the need to fault Fender. Did you go on about Fender's practices when they were very similar?
     
  18. Red Planet

    Red Planet Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    421
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    North Georgia
    Chinita

    For anyone who wants to know. After much digging I found out where the GT 12AX7-M is made. It is 100 percent made in China. It is made at the Shaguang Factory (I'm not sure on the spelling) in China and if you look on their website last I checked there is no mention of its origion. They leave it up to you to connect the dots.
     
  19. Tremo

    Tremo Banned

    Posts:
    3,802
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    Thanks for the detective work, RP. Your info comes as no surprise.

    Now how many people do you think have successfully been suckered by Pitt into thinking the 12AX7M and the 6L6 GE are made at the GT facility in LaLa land? LOL.

    I really want to see an Uncle Spot shootout with those tubes included, we'll see how they really stack up against the competition. No hype and BS there, just the straight skinny.

    Still, there will be some who continue to beat the drum and sing the praises of GT......oh well......


    :lol:
     
  20. Doc

    Doc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,221
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    South Dakota
    And some that even if they stack up still will not like GT.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.