Lets Talk Tonez and Pedals

[ice_pick]

Hey all,

I know there threads about rigs and ect. But I want to talk about pedals one by one and their settings that you use.

First of all, delay. The Edge uses two delays, one set long, one set short, into two separate amps with two mics. He also adds modulation. I assume most people are just using one amp and one delay. Which delay are you setting when you 'cop' that sound? The long one? How do you find delay units that do not have the tap tempo button or a knob only, ie not a digital where you can set the exact repeat? I'm wondering if I can get a simple one and keep it on one setting.

How about reverb... Anyone lugging around a real unit or use built in or do the small pedals do justice today? What level and always on or what percent of songs.

What do you use for modulation? The edge was pretty firm about needing modulation to keep the tone warm and full sounding from what I have read. What can I use for this that wont mess with the singers? I like chorus being a nirvana fan but I just don't know.

I just find it hard to pick up on pedals when people write "I use these 8 pedals: ...". And then settings are usually not brought up. So what are your top two pedals that you must have.

I like tremolo a lot as a vintage effect but it doesn't seem that popular, even of it is a one trick pony.

Does anyone use multiple mics on an amp? I was thinking about using a second further away to add some delay. But with all the problems people have with sound men I may be asking for trouble. I have heard people use a little mixer to send their final signal to the deck.

I was going to use Nashville tuning maybe if I'm playing rhythm and there is an acoustic doing the same. Sort of the doubling track trick but live. I don't know how tight I would have to play to make it work or if I could play looser and jangly and it would blend in.

 

[Snowwizard]

If you aren't using tremolo, then you're missing out. Im using Fulltone's Supa-Trem. It's not just vintage. You can't get early Coldplay without Trem. Buddy Miller has said that he almost always has the Tremolo on. If I'm not using a thicker setting for atmosphere or ambience, I'll leave it on with a really low mix because it warms up the tone like The Edge said. Mike at Fulltone has said similar things.

 

[ice_pick]

So is that a volume swelling tremolo or a pitch shifting one? I don't like the volume one on my vox pathfinder 15r as much. It seems to make a overall volume lower but it sounds noisier to me. My bro still makes it sound good. I enjoy the pitch shifting ones because they sound more "in tune" to me.

What's the verdict on delay time if I'm running one amp one delay?

So far I'm looking at getting a univox echo tape that's modded to do slap back and longer delay. Then maybe a danelectro tremolo. I think it one of them had really good reviews... But maybe that was the chorus. I'm still up in the air about reverb. My vox has it, but I may pitch it to get a tweed champ. The reverb units would be too much to haul so I'm looking at the danelectro spring reverb tank/big pedal thing and calling it a day.

What's the verdict on wah? Seems like a no no but if I leave it on in position to add a little nasal and cut a little bass when I turn the amp up for more over drive I think it could work. Or for swelling in some treble sort of like a volume pedal is used.

Thats about 4 pedals: delay, reverb, tremolo and wah. I'm hoping to coax most of the distortion via volume knob from whatever amp I'm into.

What are my choices for a distortion/overdrive with tweeds. I was going to pickup a bad bob locally but we will see! It may have to wait until I get my paws on that tape delay.

 

[jbmando]

True tremolo is only amplitude (volume) modulation. The pitch modulation is called vibrato.

As for pedals and how I use them, I use compression for an audible pick attack and a nice amount of "squish." I use an overdrive pedal for a warm, overdriven tube kind of distortion - not too fuzzy sounding - delay for the modern CCM sounds I have to play, but in actual fact, I dig the Tomlin/Hillsong sounds we do. It's new to me, as an old rock/blues and later, country, guy. I can see why some of you guys who have been at it longer would be kind of tired of it, and I don't particularly care for U2. Anyway, I use one delay for straight time delay and the other one for dotted eighths. I have a wah which I use for certain songs just to add in something different. I do not like to use it in the cocked position. I have a tremolo pedal for the songs which call for it, and a vibe pedal for any swampy and/or spacey kind of sounds I want. I do not use any of the last three that much. Comp, drive and delay are my main effects.

 

[ice_pick]

Thanks much. I find U2 pretty dec, though I've only listened to the Joshua tree album. I saw them live about a year ago. Very bright tone, holy crap delay all over, couldnt tell what he was playing. Very alien sounds, not as spacey as Floyd. I saw Chris Tomlin too, my girl brought me. Pretty rocking tones, I think there was a tele and 10 pedalish board. Couldn't tell what their amps were. I had never heard of them before going. Only thing was their weird plug thing where he talks for like 10 min mid show. I don't remember what it was about. it was flow stopping. They dont need an acoustic chugging every song. Just saying it seems pretty cumbersome.

 

[bigmuff113]

Vox AC30/15, a strat, and a Deluxe Memory Man

 

[Snowwizard]

Vox AC30/15, a strat, and a Deluxe Memory Man

BM is spot on. That will get you the basic U2 sound and that's all you need if you want to rip off U2. We will probably never have the gear of the pros and if we did (for most of us) it would be a waste of money. when Buddy Miller was touring with Robert Plant and the Band of Joy, he had a Tube Tape Echo on a board that bridged two Swart Amps. That's 5k in gear plus Buddy's pedals and guitars. Buddy is a pro and those are his tools, but I can get his sound (or close to it) for much less.

I read a forum where someone listed the gear in Coldplays pedal board, ripped it and then told us all the boutique gear he would use instead.

Figure out the sound of your worship band and go from there. I use a TC flashback with the 2290 setting to get the Edge delay. I use a Boss DD5 for Coldplay. Right now it's set for Reverse like Starwberry Swing but I'm trying to dial in the earlier album's delay setting, which I'm learning is a lot more about Trem and reverb than just delay.

Reverb is the thing that's underrated in both those bands sounds. I use a TC Hall of Fame set to hall with Decay at 10, feedback around noon, and fx level at 2. I use the church of Andy tone print for ambient stuff and the tile verb for old country.

For OD I just 3 pedals (mild, medium and hot) the AC Booster, the TS9 and the Plimsoul.

I have my compression set for sustain more than squish.

But if you can't make a decent guitar with a good tube amp work, then pedals wont help you much.

 

[mrboson]

But if you can't make a decent guitar with a good tube amp work, then pedals wont help you much.

Truth! Yeah I know not technically on topic, but no matter what has to be in the signal chain, I highly recommend getting really good at just a cable into the amp, then adding the pedals adds to what you can bring by your actual playing. All due respect to Edge, but if all his fx gear has a meltdown in the middle of a set what is he going to do? I actually saw something similar to that a few months ago with a band. Lead guitar had some great stuff going in his set, then apparently had a problem with his pedal board. He spent 2 songs on his knees fiddling with his pedals, visibly stressed out. If it was me, I would have just unplugged from the dang things and gone straight into the Dr Z he had behind him.

 

[Snowwizard]

I guarantee that the U2 has back up gear.

 

[Snowwizard]

Can someone explain chorus to me? I get how it's used for grunge or metal, but the obsession in worship music as always escaped my understanding.

 

[jbmando]

I can't explain any obsession you are sensing in the CCM community, but I have a chorus on order and I intend to use it for a little jangle/ shimmer in my rhythm arpeggios, and stuff like that. I doubt I'll leave it on full time and I don't think I will be playing solos with it. I know I will not be using it with a wide sweep in pitch because I think that sounds horrible. What I don't get is how it would be used in grunge or metal, but then I am not a big fan of those genres so I can't say I've listened to enough to determine where and when it is being used.

 

[kennesawbob]

I play electric in our Worship band. My job is to accompany our worship leader who sings and lays rhythm acoustic. I do this with a Fender Strat playing through a chorus, delay (dotted 8th notes with a few repeats), and a reverb. I'm getting a real nice tone with this set up. I will turn the delay off or on. However, the chorus and reverb stay on.

 

[mrboson]

Can someone explain chorus to me? I get how it's used for grunge or metal, but the obsession in worship music as always escaped my understanding.

I just assumed a lot of present-day CCM guitarists grew listening to The Cure.

 

[bigmuff113]

I just assumed a lot of present-day CCM guitarists grew listening to The Cure.

I guess you got to show him how you did that trick

 

[rhoydotp]

I guess you got to show him how you did that trick

i see what you did there

 

[Tele-beeb]

You asked about particular settings and mentioned the Edge... upon reading where he is quoted, and uses multiple and layered delays... keep in mind forum friends, he has an assistant who hands him his guitars, tuned and effect ready, I sort of chuckle at that.
Anyway, I currently use three delays... and it is pretty easy to get any edgy sound you want at home... however, in performance, multiple delays are just a headache. Anyway:
Vox Cooltron Over the Top Boost - Always on the Custom setting treble 3/4 bass 1/4
Small Fry or Distrotron - I always run overdrives beyond unity
Nova Delay - to get U2 I use all of the multi-taps, don't let them be too noticed
Nova Repeater - ditto, the Nova and the Repeater both have different character
Toadworks Redux - Wow, anyway, just about every setting has a use
Maxon Phase Tone - Quiet times, alter calls... slow setting one knob haha...
Diamond Tap Tremolo - Like Snowwizard says... I use it lots, the Diamond has a gain setting, I use it for boost with depth down how cool, also trem is a subtle modulation... in praise and worship trem can do a slow throb in the background, like a heartbeat.
Reverb - I never can find a practical use... liking delay better... refer to the Redux
To end this long reply, I recommend, don't overuse or over-plan effects. btw, listen to the original song and see where the taps hit... like Hillsong "From the Inside Out" you can hear the tap-reflections...

 

[Snowwizard]

Tele-Beeb,

You're absolutely right about the Edge's guitar tech... You'll never get exactly the sound of the players you like because there's so much behind the scenes that goes into their sound that none of us can ever afford or replicate.

Church players should just try and get something passable and solid. We had Phil Keaggy at church last night. I love his custom Olson acoustic but it would be ridiculous for me to try and get gear like that.

As for reverb... There is no "U2 sound" with out it. I recommend listening to "Belladonna" or "Shine" by U2 producer Daniel Lanois to hear practical reverb... Or any indie rock band currently playing. ironically both Kings of Leon and the Black keys have played on my stereo while writing this... Both songs drenched in reverb

 

[JohnSS]

Using a G&L ASAT or Hamer Special through Peavey Rage and Blazer 158's. Pedals are: a Dano Cool Cat CO-1 (OCD clone), a T-Rex Tonebug chorus/flanger, and a DeltaLab DD-1. I am not into the cliche U2 sound that a lot of P&W players seem to prefer; I use the Delta Lab more like a faux reverb or for analog delay type sounds. The little Peavey Transtubes sound like Princetons when cranked past 5 but without the excess volume that distracts a congregation.