Let's hear the differences between Bcaster, Blackguard, Whiteguard, Nocaster

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by klasher, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. klasher

    klasher Tele-Holic

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    I think I know what others refer to when I hear terms like Broadcaster, Blackguard, Whiteguard, Nocaster, Bakersfield, etc., but I'd like to know what you think those terms mean. Here's a youtube clip of what I always thought was the quintessential Broadcaster sound. Please take a sec and post a clip that really sums up for you what one of those terms above means, or at least comes into the ballpark.
    Here's mine. Solo at 2:45.

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Oh boy, I have bridge pickups from many eras including all those "models" and aside from the slightly softer tone of the early A3 magnets and the slightly boosted D and G of the later staggered magnets, to me they can all sound the same.
    Saddle material, I can't hear that within the whole guitar sound.

    The big difference happens when they are wound particularly hot or weak, and while the very early Keef favored A3 mag pickups are known to be pretty hot, like 10k of 43awg, the pickup I have from that era (Broadcaster era from Champion lap steel) is a little over 6k of 43awg which makes a very thin toned pickup, not at all what the internet thinks of as Broadcaster tone.

    The aftermarket pays attention to magnet material/ wire/ turn count/ flat or staggered.
    But few makers offer custom magnet stagger where many offer mixed mag types, different wire and of course different turn counts (AKA dcr numbers).

    Stick a vintage stagger pickup (set fairly high) under a 14" radius and hear how the stagger boosts those middle strings, hence seemingly gives a super fat midrange tone. Sound fat and mid boosted, yet has nothing to do with all the specs buyers primarily focus on.

    Then stick a BC/NC/BGT flat pole pickup (set fairly high) under a 7.25 radius and hear how the high E and low E dominate while the D and G are attenuated. Sounds mid scooped, yet has nothing to do with all the specs buyers primarily focus on.

    But lower either mag pattern and they sound more the same than different.

    According to the many vintage Fender pickups I've owned and tried, there is very little difference between the eras, so little that they can easily sound indistinguishably the same.

    The super hot early pickups are rare anomalies AFAIK.
    The saddle material?
    We may hear an individual guitar change with a saddle swap, but I doubt we can hear it in a recording, assuming the player sets the gear and hits the strings for their own target tone.

    One thing I find odd is that most players today who pick up a legit "vintage spec" Tele of any name find the bridge pickup has "ice pick tone", and they feel a need to buy a hot overwound pickup that is only "vintage spec" because the internet says some early model came with a hot overwound bridge pickup.
    And players of vintage style Tele models often search for other gear mods to eliminate that vintage bright clean bridge pickup tone that was used to create so much classic country, roots and Rock music.

    Players are not entirely wrong to hear a problem, and I'd say the amp is a better palce to fix it than the bridge pickup, but softer darker tone found in early sorta primitive amps is harder to get than a new bridge pickup, hence the popularity of chani=ging the guitar in pursuit of keeping the tone the same as "vintage" Tele (or BC/ NC) tone.

    So WRT the perception of all the different early version of our Telecaster, IMO their individual sounds are mostly internet myth.

    As far as the overwound Tele bridge pickup tone, I think Seymour Duncan might have started it when he rewound a dead bridge pickup for Robbie Robertson, which we can hear on a good number of recordings. Sort of nasal thick and hard to place the origin of the tone, but when I read Duncans account of winding a fatter toned pickup for Robertson those old recorded tones made sense.

    Unless Keef had already discovered one of the oddball lady finishing the spool of wire Champion lap steel pickups and had it put in a Tele earlier than the Robertson pickup. There were a few of those 10k of 43awg pickups in early guitars already, but they are not as hot and nasal as what can be made today by filling a bridge bobbin with 42awg, and they were not the typical BC/NC or BG sound.
     
    Skydog1010, 8trackmind and RYAN1987M like this.
  3. klasher

    klasher Tele-Holic

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    Sorry, I meant please post A CLIP, like a youtube vid. Let's hear what we're each referring to. Though I appreciate your thoughts, I really want to spend this thread listening, not necessarily reading.
     
  4. buddyboy

    buddyboy Tele-Meister

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    Here - this to me is my idea of the pinnacle of Tele tone. Bog standard, 1969 Alnico V Tele pickup, with a treble response that could take your head off, mated to 1 meg pots to boot.

    At 2:18:



     
  5. klasher

    klasher Tele-Holic

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    So what 'era' of tele tone would you describe that as? Whiteguard? Bakersfield?
     
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