Les Paul: Need some advice on pedals and tone crafting (compression/limiter/volume, etc)

[pevsfreedom]

Hi.

I am semi-recently getting more into trying to craft my own tone and hitting some experimental snags I suppose,

1) I have a Les Paul and a Supro Amulet. Mid heavy. I bought a JHS Haunting Mids. It seems to help tone done the mids.

2) I have a Keeley Compressor Plus (4 knob) and recently got a GC2 limiter. These has given me some things to think about...
The 4 knob is, as I understand and noticed, an effect. It is very noisy. The GC2.. I wasn't really sure what it would do. I'm still not entirely sure what it does.. I notice a "bit" of squash, and a ton of volume adjustments. It's a lot more subtle and less of an effect than the Plus, but I had no idea it worked as almost a volume "gate", which is happily unexpected.

I have an Ernie Ball MVP Volume Pedal, that I only purchased so I could play at cranked tube volumes at home.. with a previous Vox 10w. Now I have a 1/5/15w amp, and the limiter.. with realizing the limiters function, do I need the volume pedal? I don't care about swells.. and now it seems to just be taking up a ton of space.

So, actual questions

1) I think the JHS is kind of cool.. I was a bit torn between this and an EQ. I figured the amp has bass and treble, and I'm (from what I've read and understand) in a bit of a muddy/mid heavy set-up. Something sounded wrong to my ears before, and I think it was in fact the Keeley Plus (adding mids) and just.. dark muddy sound. The JHS pedal seems to add some nice "sharpness" and clarity and color. I'm still a bit on the fence. It has a lot of interesting applications, and I don't think a full EQ is necessary for my needs.

2) Do I even need a compressor in a Les Paul, playing by myself at home set-up? I kinda like the squash sound. Would you pick the Plus or the GC2? I like the unexpected "volume" pedal function of the GC2. I've read compressors are more reserved for single coil and band set-ups, which makes me lean towards the limiter as.. a limiter with compression.

3) Would you get rid of the volume pedal? Between the MVP and the GC2, in my situation, it seems like they kind of do the exact same thing. The GC2 almost does volume better, as I just leave it as loud as I'd want it to get and use the guitar's volume. The JHS and GC2 I think would be "always on" - I can have it at 15w on the amp, about cranked, and set the threshold, and I'm happy at about 90dB. Volume pedal just sits there looking big.

3) I know experimentation is key.. but would you mess with any of this? I'm open to suggestions. I'm really still trying to work on tone.

My set-up right now is LP > Wah (Vox, that I don't love) > Hoof Fuzz (very... delicate pedal) > MXR Timmy > JHS Haunting Mids > Keeley GC2 Limiter > Volume > MXR CC Delay > Looper > Supro Amulet amp.

Thanks for any pointers.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Just some general thoughts:

- I doubt your Keeley Comp is "adding mids", but depending on how you have it set up it may be contributing to something you hear as "muddy". I'd say eliminate it as a factor and re-introduce it after you have other things sorted out.

- LP's can be middy (or at least their picks can be), and you say you're running a middy amp. Too much of that can potentially muddy things up.

- I use my guitars' volume controls for changing the guitar's volume, cleaning up a dirty tone etc., and I use a volume pedal as an effect, like say for swells (mine also functions as an expression pedal for two of my other pedals). So I'd understand getting rid of your volume pedal if you don't have that use for it.

- "Needing" a comp is a subjective thing. I also tend to associate them with single-coil guitars (because I also associate them with country and funk tones; lots of single-coils there... but not exclusively). But your Keeley Comp does have a single-coil/humbucker switch, so someone think s you might still find use for it.

- I encourage you to try each of your dirt pedals of any variety (fuzz, etc.) both before and after your wah. It can make a huge difference e(though obviously only when dirt+wah are being used) to the point that you love one and hate the other. I like my dirt before my wah for a more defined, vocal "wah" sound, but I also like that whole signal to drive my amp a bit for a little of the wildcat hiss.

 

[Killing Floor]

Seems like you have a LP (awesome) that’s got its own sound but those buckers can get a little wooly. Then the fuzz which can also be a little mid heavy. Then the mid boost/sweep. My first thought is you are hearing a big sawtooth shaped EQ curve.

Have you considered a treble boost instead of Haunting mids? Or an EQ. Or neither?
Tell me why you are using the mid boost.

I have never used that compressor so can’t help. But I’m a big believer in comp. But it’s got to be set properly. And it shouldn’t be noisy.

There’s no best sound or order so experiment. And it’s ok to take something out. This from a pedal fiend.

 

[Wooly Fox]

I think you need to try an EQ pedal and the amp alone before adding everything else.

Play with the volume and tone for bridge and neck position, my preferred settings was half volume on bridge, 9.5 on neck and middle position. I could control the muddiness I got when running the volume controls fully open.

Some fuzz pedals work better than others with humbuckers. Hoof is a Big Muff family pedal so should work fairly well if you like scooped sounds. Also put fuzz pedals first as they like to see guitar impedance.

Wah is an odd one, I like it but never got them to work nicely on my rigs. I found a filter fuzz with expression input which can double as my Wah if I need it.

Compressors are also more in the realm of funk and country where you need an even sound for finger picking and tight rhythm sections. Humbuckers naturally compress so not really necessary unless you play that style of music.

For the heavy rock tone (I guess as it's an LP), try setting all your gain pedals at 2 o'clock. I'm not kidding, this works on many pedals for some reason. Dial tone and gain to taste. If you're goosing the Amulet for your drive, set gain to minimum and max the level. Pedal order to try is gainiest pedal to least gainy pedal. Usually fuzz, distortion then OD/Boost. For more gain, put boost into Distortion and Fuzz, for a solo volume boost, boost after distortion.

Lastly, consider a tasteful modulation pedal in your chain like a phaser or chorus but set subtle. This can really thicken your tone without a huge mids peak like ODs can do.

Most of all, have fun and try stuff.

 

[Tommy Biggs]

Nah you don’t need the compressor or the volume pedal or the limiter. Run the gain low and output high, put the amp on the 1 watt setting, and go to town!
See if you like it. I bet I would!

 

[pevsfreedom]

Thanks for the responses. Accidentally I didn't have the thread on "watch". I like to reply in full, so sorry if this is long, lol.

Just some general thoughts:

- I doubt your Keeley Comp is "adding mids", but depending on how you have it set up it may be contributing to something you hear as "muddy". I'd say eliminate it as a factor and re-introduce it after you have other things sorted out.

- LP's can be middy (or at least their picks can be), and you say you're running a middy amp. Too much of that can potentially muddy things up.

- I use my guitars' volume controls for changing the guitar's volume, cleaning up a dirty tone etc., and I use a volume pedal as an effect, like say for swells (mine also functions as an expression pedal for two of my other pedals). So I'd understand getting rid of your volume pedal if you don't have that use for it.

- "Needing" a comp is a subjective thing. I also tend to associate them with single-coil guitars (because I also associate them with country and funk tones; lots of single-coils there... but not exclusively). But your Keeley Comp does have a single-coil/humbucker switch, so someone think s you might still find use for it.

- I encourage you to try each of your dirt pedals of any variety (fuzz, etc.) both before and after your wah. It can make a huge difference e(though obviously only when dirt+wah are being used) to the point that you love one and hate the other. I like my dirt before my wah for a more defined, vocal "wah" sound, but I also like that whole signal to drive my amp a bit for a little of the wildcat hiss.

I read some article about how the older comp-expander style units can "add mids". I will say the Keeley Plus (4 knob) is definitely.. noisy. And much more of a "squash" effect than a "tool" - and the Keeley people had an article on that too, which I definitely found accurate.

The Keeley GC-2 is almost an instant favorite of mine, just for the volume threshold setting alone. Suits my needs perfectly (after a few days of testing), and can also do it at 0 compression or infinity. I kinda like the "squash" personally, and it can do that as much or as little as I want, while also opening up my other pedals to be run with higher volume and clarity since there's a limiter at the end keeping everything from making my ears bleed.

I did try the volume pedal at the start of the chain, instead of near the end, where it was - and yeah, it's just like the guitar knob.. which is.. OK? But it's a literally big and expensive pedal on the board just for that one function in my circumstance. If I did swells - I'd definitely keep But I think that one may be seeing the door.. having rock from heel (rhythm) to toe (lead) is kind of nice on an LP.. since the volume is a bit "hard" to reach as opposed to a Fender, but IDK. Selling stuff means I can buy other stuff!

Seems like you have a LP (awesome) that’s got its own sound but those buckers can get a little wooly. Then the fuzz which can also be a little mid heavy. Then the mid boost/sweep. My first thought is you are hearing a big sawtooth shaped EQ curve.

Have you considered a treble boost instead of Haunting mids? Or an EQ. Or neither?
Tell me why you are using the mid boost.

I have never used that compressor so can’t help. But I’m a big believer in comp. But it’s got to be set properly. And it shouldn’t be noisy.

There’s no best sound or order so experiment. And it’s ok to take something out. This from a pedal fiend.

Yeah, I have an LP with microphonic pups. Happened on its own. It's wily and I can hear my voice thru the amp with delay on, but I rather enjoy the sound and dynamics. Definitely has its own flavor and has been thru a lot, lol.

The Haunting Mids actually is also an instant favorite of mine. Playing with it "off" at any time over the last few days just sounds.. bad. I scoop the kind of 1/3 way by about 50% and it adds this nice.. color and "growl" I'd say. Definitely brightens it up. With it off it's extraordinarily dark, which is why I bought it. I just figured with how mid-centered everything is that particular EQ would be nice, and I think it's working out as post OD pedal, but before the limiter. I should clarify I'm using it as a mid cut rather than boost. My sound without it is super dark and almost muddy. The cut from the pedal opens the sound up immensely in a nice, brightening way. If I played a Fender or single coil thru this I think the pedal would be unnecessary, but in my circumstances it makes a huge difference.

The hard part for me is getting it all set-up so nicely, then having to spend another hour rearranging if I don't like something. But it is fun learning.. I've only ever had 1-2 pedals for 15 years of playing and am now just kind of starting to try and get more into the tone side of things while also not going crazy, yet. Trying to figure out how one knob on pedal A affects knob on pedal D is fun, once I get past the "set it and forget it" perfection thing I'm prone to. Gotta just mess with everything and it all opens up as quite a hobby inside a hobby.

I think you need to try an EQ pedal and the amp alone before adding everything else.

Play with the volume and tone for bridge and neck position, my preferred settings was half volume on bridge, 9.5 on neck and middle position. I could control the muddiness I got when running the volume controls fully open.

Some fuzz pedals work better than others with humbuckers. Hoof is a Big Muff family pedal so should work fairly well if you like scooped sounds. Also put fuzz pedals first as they like to see guitar impedance.

Wah is an odd one, I like it but never got them to work nicely on my rigs. I found a filter fuzz with expression input which can double as my Wah if I need it.

Compressors are also more in the realm of funk and country where you need an even sound for finger picking and tight rhythm sections. Humbuckers naturally compress so not really necessary unless you play that style of music.

For the heavy rock tone (I guess as it's an LP), try setting all your gain pedals at 2 o'clock. I'm not kidding, this works on many pedals for some reason. Dial tone and gain to taste. If you're goosing the Amulet for your drive, set gain to minimum and max the level. Pedal order to try is gainiest pedal to least gainy pedal. Usually fuzz, distortion then OD/Boost. For more gain, put boost into Distortion and Fuzz, for a solo volume boost, boost after distortion.

Lastly, consider a tasteful modulation pedal in your chain like a phaser or chorus but set subtle. This can really thicken your tone without a huge mids peak like ODs can do.

Most of all, have fun and try stuff.

I do think you're right. I haven't tried the EQ with the amp yet. It definitely does help, but getting a good sound with those 2 would be a good start.

I have noticed I have been trying to fix things later in the chain than I should, and need to start at the beginning (amp) and go from there a bit more sometimes. I have a problem with being articulate with the volume knob. I'm an accidental set it and forget it at 10 kind of guy. I did that less on my Fender guitars, since it's a bit easier to get to.

The Hoof Fuzz is SUPER adjustable. Almost too much for my taste. I always used simple Fuzz Faces and Strats/Teles. I think I'm actually just growing to not really love fuzz - and I think that started around the time I got the LP (I've only ever owned one guitar/amp at a time, IDK why).

The Wah is.. existent. It does a wah thing. I have the Vox 847 classic, and I've had a Crybaby. Honestly? Hate em both. I've tried it before and after the fuzz, before sounds better to me, but that's not saying much. It just seems, in my set-up, like a very limited effect. I opened it up and adjusted the sweep and it's still so mild. Used it for 10 years, never really have liked it.

I think I like the limiter as a limiter more than the compressor, since yeah, I don't do funk or country. The limiter function is unintended and awesome for me, and can add some compression which I sometimes like the sound of (pure flatpicker).

Thanks for the input. 2pm on the knobs does seem to work a lot of the time. I play blues and Grateful Dead type stuff, and just along with most anything that comes on Spotify in the background. Not a heavy rocker by any means. Mess around with it sometimes. Never owned a distortion pedal, though I think I'd like those more than fuzz.

I was thinking of getting a Boss MD200 for mixed modulation in one.. I'm sorta running out of space on the ol' board, and don't wanna go too big, though I'm a bit afraid of a pure digital sound, and have read mixed reviews. A few choice and quality pedals might be more beneficial than a 12-in-1 where only a few sound good, and others will never be used! But I definitely agree I need a few more modulation options (just for fun of course, I like weird noises).

Kinda thinking of getting rid of the 4 knob, the Volume pedal, the Wah, and maybe even the fuzz.. in that order, but I won't be hasty. The Timmy > Haunting Mids > Limiter > Delay is real nice.

Nah you don’t need the compressor or the volume pedal or the limiter. Run the gain low and output high, put the amp on the 1 watt setting, and go to town!
See if you like it. I bet I would!

Lol. I do that sometimes. Just leave it all off and play at 1 when my wife's doing something elsewhere and I need to be quiet-ish. I enjoy 5 the most, with the effects. 15 sounds.. really bad to me? It's in kind of a small room that doesn't agree with the airyness/headroom. Had to get rid of my Fender DRRI for that reason.

 

[MountainWilliam]

Hi.

I am semi-recently getting more into trying to craft my own tone and hitting some experimental snags I suppose,

1) I have a Les Paul and a Supro Amulet. Mid heavy. I bought a JHS Haunting Mids. It seems to help tone done the mids.

2) I have a Keeley Compressor Plus (4 knob) and recently got a GC2 limiter. These has given me some things to think about...
The 4 knob is, as I understand and noticed, an effect. It is very noisy. The GC2.. I wasn't really sure what it would do. I'm still not entirely sure what it does.. I notice a "bit" of squash, and a ton of volume adjustments. It's a lot more subtle and less of an effect than the Plus, but I had no idea it worked as almost a volume "gate", which is happily unexpected.

I have an Ernie Ball MVP Volume Pedal, that I only purchased so I could play at cranked tube volumes at home.. with a previous Vox 10w. Now I have a 1/5/15w amp, and the limiter.. with realizing the limiters function, do I need the volume pedal? I don't care about swells.. and now it seems to just be taking up a ton of space.

So, actual questions

1) I think the JHS is kind of cool.. I was a bit torn between this and an EQ. I figured the amp has bass and treble, and I'm (from what I've read and understand) in a bit of a muddy/mid heavy set-up. Something sounded wrong to my ears before, and I think it was in fact the Keeley Plus (adding mids) and just.. dark muddy sound. The JHS pedal seems to add some nice "sharpness" and clarity and color. I'm still a bit on the fence. It has a lot of interesting applications, and I don't think a full EQ is necessary for my needs.

2) Do I even need a compressor in a Les Paul, playing by myself at home set-up? I kinda like the squash sound. Would you pick the Plus or the GC2? I like the unexpected "volume" pedal function of the GC2. I've read compressors are more reserved for single coil and band set-ups, which makes me lean towards the limiter as.. a limiter with compression.

3) Would you get rid of the volume pedal? Between the MVP and the GC2, in my situation, it seems like they kind of do the exact same thing. The GC2 almost does volume better, as I just leave it as loud as I'd want it to get and use the guitar's volume. The JHS and GC2 I think would be "always on" - I can have it at 15w on the amp, about cranked, and set the threshold, and I'm happy at about 90dB. Volume pedal just sits there looking big.

3) I know experimentation is key.. but would you mess with any of this? I'm open to suggestions. I'm really still trying to work on tone.

My set-up right now is LP > Wah (Vox, that I don't love) > Hoof Fuzz (very... delicate pedal) > MXR Timmy > JHS Haunting Mids > Keeley GC2 Limiter > Volume > MXR CC Delay > Looper > Supro Amulet amp.

Thanks for any pointers.

Unless you're wanting to use it for a bit more level volume, or a bit more evenly delivered sustain, im not sure if a comp is part of the quest you're presently on. I am almost romantically involved with my Wampler ego boost, but I'm a single coil, hybrid picking, cluck plucker. My board is slowly getting consistently less populated, and the pedals that still seem to come and go are the same handful. Two pedals, (*excluding my tuner and a delay in my loop*) have not left my board since I purchased them. My Wampler Belle and my comp. Exactly what sort of sound are you hearing in your head? Who would you compare it to? What kind of music are you looking to play? I think the problem isn't solvable wo those variables.

 

[Swirling Snow]

Microphonic pickups are a good thing in a Les Paul, as the wood is worth listening to.


Since I worked in a store, it was all too easy, but I spent 20 years doing what you're doing now.

Then I bought a Marshall. No pedals needed any more, no insecurities about my "tone". Just a deep regret I didn't do it sooner.

 

[TurtlesnTanlines]

1. Get a cheap Behringer EQ pedal to dial in a clean sound you like with your setup.

2. The GC-2 is a limiting pedal. It’s the pedal placed after my drives to ensure they are all unity gain live. Then I put an EP boost after. It’s more of a utility pedal like a noise suppressor, not a sound enhancer.
The Keeley is a classic compressor that livens your sound and adds pick attack/sustain. I love the sound of compressors.

3. Les Pauls can get muddy. My SG does this as well, tho, a bit less. Try adjusting pickup height and the individual pole heights. A slight change may help.

4. Most Supros are very full sounding. Combined with a ‘full’ sounding guitar is going to overload those lower mids. Plug in to a Marshall and they’re likely to sound empty compared to what you imagine. This is why they work so well with Les Pauls. Luckily an EQ can fix this.

Bonus-
1. Roll down the Volume knobs on your LP! For comparison, I play my SG at about 5-7 volume and my Teles on 8-10.

2. You might be a single coil guy. Les Pauls are gorgeous, but may not be the sound you’re looking for. Same with amp…you might like the Fender sound. My first guitar was a really nice LP copy, but finally sold it for an Ibanez (HSH pups). It looked incredible, but it wasn’t ‘my sound’. Only LP I’ve ever loved was a fully chambered Modern LP with pickup split options…but it was $3500+.

 

[Edgar Allan Presley]

I'm a little late to this thread, but I'd start at the amp, turning the treble knob to noon and bass knob all the way down. Then slowly turn the bass up until the guitar strings sound balanced, and adjust the treble for clarity. On bass-treble tone stacks, I tend to turn the bass quite low, especially with humbuckers. That bass knob is your muddiness control. Once you get a good, clear, balanced sound from the amp, turn to pedals. The pedals should be easy to dial in once you get your amp tuned in.

 

[Stiles]

Maybe consider the Wampler Equator for more mid/high sculpting.