1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Lazy J 5E3 Modifications?

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by MasterEvan07, May 14, 2019.

  1. MasterEvan07

    MasterEvan07 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    351
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    Dakotas
    We've all heard/read/seen/subscribed to, at one point or another, how brand X's 5E3 derivative is "THE BEST EVER" reinvention of the wheel, so today I'm wondering if anyone knows what the fellows at Lazy J did to justify theirs being in $3-4K range.

    What did they modify? Add? Looks like a voltage control option and spec'd to be able to do both 6V6 and 6L6. Anyone seen a schematic or guts?
     
    Mongo Park likes this.
  2. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Price may, in part, reflect...
    • Exchange rate, VAT, customs and shipping — Lazy J is in the UK
    • If they sell through dealers, then the dealer adds an additional 50-100% of the wholesale cost for their own profit margin and overhead
    • Branding — the "Chivas Regal" theory, consumers equate price to quality, exclusiveness. Plenty of guitar and map builders have told me that offering only high-priced products filters out the tire-kickers and nickel and dime-ers
    • And, maybe it's just the money they need to make on the amp to make it worthwhile to even offer. These guys aren't building and selling these in volume. If I were to build a premium 5E3, it would start at $1800 to the customer (parts x2), probably $2500 through a deaer, and that's with it just being a hobby to me, if I had business overhead, it may be more
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    jsnwhite619 and Paul G. like this.
  3. Nickfl

    Nickfl Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,561
    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Location:
    Florida
    They got some famous guys to play one at some point? It doesn't seem like its something they are trying to justify from a technical standpoint based on the way his website describes the amps and considering there isn't even a gut shot on their website.

    I'd never heard of them before this. Looking at his website, it seems to be priced based more on a basis "he's been doing this forever + famous guys use him = must be holy grail and priced accordingly". Fair enough, thats what I'd sell them for too if I was him and people wanted to pay, but if your looking for an objective, scientific reason for those amps (or anyone's really) to cost more than other boutique Fender clones, your going to be disappointed. They are all (presumably well made) copies of the same 60+ year old designs.
     
  4. Paul G.

    Paul G. Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,618
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

    I won't pay $4K for a 5e3ish, but I guess somebody will.
     
    Bill Moore, No457 Snowy and robrob like this.
  5. MasterEvan07

    MasterEvan07 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    351
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    Dakotas
    Wasn't exactly meaning to emphasize the economics of it, per se. This being the Shock Bros forum I was more looking to see if anyone knew more about them and what, if anything, they did differently. Importing, profit margins, etc. not being as interesting as the actual circuit ;)
     
    Paul-T likes this.
  6. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    So you weren't actually wondering this? Because the justification of cost has zero to do with the electronics.

    They aren't exactly a household brand, or popular, or famous. This is maybe the first I've ever seen anyone address their amps (their pedals are popular over at TGP).

    But I'll bet a Diet Coke that it uses a variable-voltage circuit "borrowed" from SkipZ; larger iron for the 6L6; smaller coupling and/or bypass caps on one channel (or more) to tame low end flub and tighten everything up (hence the double 12AX7); ...and the potential for premium, snake-oil-priced components that make customers open their wallets further (SoZo, Mercury Magnetics, etc.). Could be they use the Dumble Tweedle Dee circuit, but I would guess they would drop a hint of "D Style" if they did.

    Since they advertise interactive controls, they aren't using the split tone circuits that Tungsten uses in the Crema Wheat.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    MasterEvan07 likes this.
  7. mgreene

    mgreene Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,039
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    south carolina
    I looked at pics of his circuit: http://www.lazyjprojects.com/TQRJan-Feb13_Web.pdf - I dont see anything out of the ordinary except that he will add options like reverb and an attenuator. He seems to have custom ordered transformers.

    I had a tweed bandmaster from another maker with reverb and an attenuator and didnt care much for it - noting that I am too old to want to turn it up - which is the onlyest place that tweeds sound good (to me).

    Of the web demos I have heard, I liked the Speed Shop 5E3 the best - built point to point.
     
  8. MasterEvan07

    MasterEvan07 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    351
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    Dakotas
    My curiosity for justification is more couched in what they may claim to have done to the circuit, not economics. Maybe that was even more tongue in cheek, but, no, I don't need the business end of it. I was thinking contextually to this DIY forum for relevance. So, as you're saying, the circuit is a non-point, cool!
     
  9. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Much like the 18-watter, every boutique now has their own recipe for a 5E3, but they all just mix and match mods from the same repository to make it "theirs." We haven't seen anything really innovative since splitting channels was all the rage a dozen years ago...and Leo's boys did that in 1962.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    robrob and No457 Snowy like this.
  10. No457 Snowy

    No457 Snowy Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    327
    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    It's a bit like music, we can all start with the same 12 notes, nothing new, we rearrange the rhythm, melody, harmony, some make music that stands out as exceptional, some make music that is OK, some make music that is not so great. Same raw materials though, same 12 notes, different "personalised" recipe. In the end the product can be price justified according with what a customer will pay.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  11. Mark1406

    Mark1406 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Location:
    Sydney
    It also has this stuff on it.

    “The amp comes with the VAC attenuator, mid boost and bass cut and a Celestion Alnico Blue as standard.”

    Different amps have different features. The bass cut would be easy enough to incorporate, the mid boost would be interesting given that the standard 5E3 has large coupling caps.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  12. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    36
    Posts:
    3,569
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Georgia
    Which means my first question would be "How much will you knock off without the speaker?" I restored a cabinet for a vintage '59 Deluxe a couple years ago and the guy put a Blue in it. Worst sound I've ever heard from a Tweed amp.
     
    Muzzy likes this.
  13. dankilling

    dankilling Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,566
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    I guess if they can get that kind of money for it, more power to them. There are better amps on the market with similar builds for much less money. The feature list is not worth the cost asked, IMO.
     
  14. Mark1406

    Mark1406 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Location:
    Sydney
    They get a good rap which is why people buy them.

    How much will someone use an attenuator?

    Don’t know.

    I thought Neil Young used a Blue in one of his Tweed Deluxes?

    The Edge Tweed Deluxe has a Celestion Blue too.
     
  15. Muzzy

    Muzzy TDPRI Member

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    64
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2020
    Location:
    01354
    I don't care for the blue in a 5e3. I run vintage reconed Jensens in mine.
     
    jsnwhite619 likes this.
  16. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    390
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Location:
    Finland
    My favorite 12" is RI Jensen P12Q. It is modernized and at best 70s Zeppelin, SVR etc sounds but it has strong vintage heritage but does quite convincing 80s rock sounds as well.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.