Lacking Brightness when Tele in Series

[Boreas]

Really? What is different about the signal path in 3 vs 4?

No change in signal path, just the switch position. If you are used to a 3-way, you slam it to 1 for the bridge or slam it to 3 for the neck. In the standard 4-way setup it is easy to hit position 4 (series) instead of 3 (neck). That can be an unwanted jolt. It is just personal preference in the position layout. Likely why some people go to push/pull pots to engage series, or throw in a neck HB instead.

 

[Controller]

I’ve always said that two single coils in series sounds to me exactly like a bad humbucker. I know a lot of you people out there love it but I think it’s a pretty useless combination.

We certainly all hear things differently. The series setting is my favorite on single coil Teles. I put a 4-way on all of them that don't have it. Series is the only setting I care for on my Baja, but those pickups are not my cup of tea anyway.

 

[FenderLover]

My latest experiment has Series in Position 1.
Position 2 is where my brightness comes from.
Tone pot is replaced with neck blend between N+B to B.
Position 3 is neck only.

 

[marciero00]

No change in signal path, just the switch position. If you are used to a 3-way, you slam it to 1 for the bridge or slam it to 3 for the neck. In the standard 4-way setup it is easy to hit position 4 (series) instead of 3 (neck). That can be an unwanted jolt. It is just personal preference in the position layout. Likely why some people go to push/pull pots to engage series, or throw in a neck HB instead.

Got it. I guess I inferred something from your comment that wasnt there. And in fact that was the setup I intended to go with if I ditch the S1- either that or just 3-way. It makes sense to have it that way.

 

[frisco slim]

Hard to make a pickup more bright, but fairly easy to cut bass, which generally gives the illusion of more brightness. Solution is usually a cap in series with the pickup, or a resistor and cap in parallel and that combination in series with the pickup. Same basic idea as the Reverend Bass Contour Control, or the G&L PBT tone control, but with fixed component values.

I'm not crazy about single coil pickups in series, but I do rather like series out of phase for a very honky, nasally special effect.

 

[Peegoo]

In any case, I think I would prefer position 4 as neck only anyway just as a preference.

The 4-way switch is designed to route pickup signals as follows.

Position 1 - bridge only
Position 2 - bridge and neck in parallel
Position 3 - neck only
Position 4 - bridge and neck in series

 

[Boreas]

The 4-way switch is designed to route pickup signals as follows.

Position 1 - bridge only
Position 2 - bridge and neck in parallel
Position 3 - neck only
Position 4 - bridge and neck in series

That is true for "standard" 4-way switch wiring. Some of us swap positions 3&4. Some sources call this "modern" 4-way wiring. Others just call it blasphemy.

 

[Antoon]

I never cared for the series position. If you have your amp set up to sound good with the single positions, then the series position sounds quite awful to me with that amp setting. Tried to filter that excessive bass and mid with a series cap but did not end up with a useable tone. Ditched it in the end. The series out of phase I kind of liked.

 

[frisco slim]

There are actually 4! (four factorial, or 4x3x2x1=24) ways to sequence the four pickup combinations of N, N+B, N*B and B. They're all possible with the standard 4-way switch. Some of them make no logical sense, but they're all possible.

 

[stefmikhail]

You could try it in conjunction with a blower switch.

ok I've GOT to know what that is!

 

[stefmikhail]

I've heard of using a resistor somewhere in line with the pickup(s), but I've never done it myself. The cap in my case is on a switch, so it doesn't affect all pickup positions that use those pickups. I have to imagine a cap, resistor or anything in line with the pickups will always affect whatever pickups they're soldered to.

I wonder to what extent the cap-in-parallel in my Strat is something like a treble bleed affecting only the series positions. I've heard of treble bleeds using only caps, as well as caps and resistors in both series and parallel, but never just a resistor.

Anyway, on a Tele it's simple enough to experiment with caps and resistors. Just leave the control plate off and solder them in and out as you please, or else solder a couple of wires to where the caps and resistors would go so that they hang out form under the control plate and clip parts onto the wires' ends until you settle on something.



PTB stand for passive treble and bass, which is something G&L used (uses [invented]?) with both treble cut (your typical tone control) and bass cut controls. Reverend used (again, uses?) something similar under a different name.

It's very useful, as you not only get to cut both high and low frequencies (dictated, as usual, by the cap values used on the pots) but you also get to play with the balance between these and the untouched frequencies in the middle. The bass cut can also be used to clean up your signal similar to lowering your volume, but with less apparent volume loss.

However, if you want to use this system then you'll need 3 pots.

A strangle switch is also a bass cut, but it's a cap on a switch so it's like a pre-set, on or off, rather than a gradual thing like a pot. It's used on Jaguars.

I just noticed you said you're using two push-pull pots. I know on is for series/parallel. What's the other one for?

It's a really unique blend control: when raised and in position 1, bridge full and I can blend in the neck in parallel. In position 3 neck is on full and bridge is blended in as wanted. In position 2 it bypasses the tone pot completely. I like it!

 

[stefmikhail]

I've heard of using a resistor somewhere in line with the pickup(s), but I've never done it myself. The cap in my case is on a switch, so it doesn't affect all pickup positions that use those pickups. I have to imagine a cap, resistor or anything in line with the pickups will always affect whatever pickups they're soldered to.

I wonder to what extent the cap-in-parallel in my Strat is something like a treble bleed affecting only the series positions. I've heard of treble bleeds using only caps, as well as caps and resistors in both series and parallel, but never just a resistor.

Anyway, on a Tele it's simple enough to experiment with caps and resistors. Just leave the control plate off and solder them in and out as you please, or else solder a couple of wires to where the caps and resistors would go so that they hang out form under the control plate and clip parts onto the wires' ends until you settle on something.



PTB stand for passive treble and bass, which is something G&L used (uses [invented]?) with both treble cut (your typical tone control) and bass cut controls. Reverend used (again, uses?) something similar under a different name.

It's very useful, as you not only get to cut both high and low frequencies (dictated, as usual, by the cap values used on the pots) but you also get to play with the balance between these and the untouched frequencies in the middle. The bass cut can also be used to clean up your signal similar to lowering your volume, but with less apparent volume loss.

However, if you want to use this system then you'll need 3 pots.

A strangle switch is also a bass cut, but it's a cap on a switch so it's like a pre-set, on or off, rather than a gradual thing like a pot. It's used on Jaguars.

I just noticed you said you're using two push-pull pots. I know on is for series/parallel. What's the other one for?

Yeah sorry I didn't speak to the rest of your comment: I think some of those solutions are perfect but I don't have any knobs available unless they were mini and I could just leave them in the cavity. Someone said that if I'm using a resistor or resistor cap combo, then I could at least with the resistor, use a mini potentiometer so that part could be variable. I'm not sure if I have something similar for capacitors. I like that idea as I can adjust as much as I want without having to solder unsolder etc.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

It's a really unique blend control: when raised and in position 1, bridge full and I can blend in the neck in parallel. In position 3 neck is on full and bridge is blended in as wanted. In position 2 it bypasses the tone pot completely. I like it!

That's an interesting scheme, I like it.

Yeah sorry I didn't speak to the rest of your comment: I think some of those solutions are perfect but I don't have any knobs available unless they were mini and I could just leave them in the cavity. Someone said that if I'm using a resistor or resistor cap combo, then I could at least with the resistor, use a mini potentiometer so that part could be variable. I'm not sure if I have something similar for capacitors. I like that idea as I can adjust as much as I want without having to solder unsolder etc.

Not sure which idea you're thinking of putting on a mini-pot and leaving in the cavity, but regardless, the only advantage a pot gives you is adjustability (a pot being, literally, a variable resistor). So wiring something on a pot and leaving the pot inaccessible is kind of pointless when you can just use a fixed-value resistor (or resistor and cap, or just cap, whatever you choose to try). It will fit a lot easier, too.

On the flip side, using a resistor and not a pot means you're stuck with whatever value you choose and whatever effect that has, which is why I suggest soldering a wire to each end of wherever your chosen solution will eventually be wired, let them stick out the control plate while the plate is screwed on (perhaps loosely) and clip caps and resistors of different values to the wires. This lets you play, use your controls and work through your switching options until you settle on something.

If you're going to go this route and you don't have a lot of caps and resistors handy, and you think you might do more of this kind of experimentation in the future, a set of capacitance and resistance substitution boxes (aka decade boxes), like this:

This makes it easy to quickly switch between different values to experiment. You can also clip them to each other in either series or parallel to emulate different schemes.

So yeah, pots let you vary the resistor's value (if you even wind up wanting/needing a resistor), but they need a lot of room either on a control plate or in a cavity.

Fixed-value resistors take up a lot less room in a cavity but require some experimentation before you commit, and once you commit you're stuck unless/until you decide to open up the guitar again and change something.

 

[Tellytwister]

ok I've GOT to know what that is!

It's just the pure signal of your pickups directly to output jack, bypassing the controls and therefore not loaded down by the pots. So slightly more brightness and output than with your pots wide open. I have it as an option on a DPDT switch and works on all switch positions but I mainly use it with neck pickup.

 

[tugboat1980]

do what Brian May does and use a treble booster when in series.

 

[Andyfreddy]

We certainly all hear things differently. The series setting is my favorite on single coil Teles. I put a 4-way on all of them that don't have it. Series is the only setting I care for on my Baja, but those pickups are not my cup of tea anyway.

Same here! I love my 4-way Tele with Tonerider Hot Classic pickups. Totally transformed from stock pickups and 3-way.

As for adjusting tone, I generally set my modeler tones/EQ at the neck pickup position, and get it they way I like it, not too dark, then going to the series position adds the neck and gives a boost, but is brighter than the neck alone…going parallel is brighter still, but less volume than series, and the bridge is then usually a bit too bright, but I can quickly roll back the tone a bit to fix it.

 

[Maguchi]

I don't know. I got 4 way switches on a few Teles and I really love the 2 pickups in series sound for a second soloing option. Yes it is a little darker, but most Teles are a bright enough guitar that to my ears it's usable. When I need a brighter sound I just switch the pickup selector to one of the other positions.

 

[bigben55]

I have a 4 way switch, and rarely use the 4 position. If I do, it's with a clean amp. If im playing rhythm on the 2 position, and want to play a still clean lead part, flipping up to the 4 is nice. But with any dirt, yeah, it's too bass-y for me. It's not worth changing back to a 3 way to me, andbi was just under the hood swapping a neck pickup.

This is why some people switch back to 3-way from 4-way switches. Some people, myself included, just don't like the tone curve of the series position. A 500k pot would help preserve some of the brightness if that is all you want, but there still is a noticeable tone curve change when switching from 3 to 4. I find it helps somewhat to wire the series position to be 3 instead of 4, but usually, I just 'ditch the switch' and go back to 3-way. I haven't fiddled with resistors - big magic I need a shaman to guide me through.

 

[gonzo]

i did a similar wiring on my tele build,
added a push pull on the master VOL,
puts the bridge/neck in series...

found out, the ONLY time i use this circuit wiring,
is when i SOLO with the WAH pedal...

and then, it is BRILLIANT!

LOL

of course, i'm not using a standard tele neck,
i've got a P-90 style pickup there,
maybe if i had a really bright spanky neck pickup,
it might work for me.