Hi, I am looking to buy my first nylon string guitar to see if I like playing that type of guitar. I found this La Mancha CL-1. It appears to be very old, made in Spain, but I can't find anything else about it online. I haven't seen it in person, I didn't want to take the time to check it out until I knew a little more about it. The asking price is really low, like <$100. Anybody shed some light on this guitar? The seller doesn't know anything other than what I just wrote. Thanks. 
La Mancha CL-1 Classical - made in Spain
- Thread starter jimrosh
- Start date
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I'm in the same boat - mildly interested in the diiferent voice of a nylon guitar, but unfamiliar w/ the meaningful features to say go/no on a particular craigslist item.
Trussrod - does it even have one?
Fretboard radius - any?
Nut width - how much fatter than my 12 string?
Bridge/saddle const - totally diff
Slotted headstock/tuners - new territory for me
Pre-amp/pup - obviously diff
Cutaway - opt
other - what to avoid, regardless of the "great deal" being offered?
Peace - Deeve
(link removed)
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PhredE
Friend of Leo's
I don't know anything about the specific guitar (or model) for this particular instrument. But, I'll offer a couple of observations: it very likely has a solid spruce top. The back and sides appear to be 'mahogany' laminate. For under $100, if it plays / sounds decent and the neck geometry is sound, it's probably a good find -- 'for the money'. Even the more modestly priced guitars from Spain that were mass produced rarely fell into the category of 'junk'. If the label has some info about city/region or a date, that might help pin down the details better.
Can you get hands on to actually play it? Do it and see what you think.
With a classical, although it's mostly 'what you see is what you get', there are a few aspects of a guitar you can tweak to address action and sound (really the two big factors to deal with). If it's been unused for more than a month, it needs strings already -- I'd be happy to suggest brands that might work well for you.
Thomann (based in Germany), now offers a brand of the same name (it is relatively new, historically speaking, and the specimen you show seems to be have been built some time ago - so I don't know about the carryover or re-branding of the ones below):
This is the US-directed part of their site -- the results should have filtered just for LaMancha brand guitars -- if I cut/pasted the link properly:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/4-4_size_classical_guitars.html?price-first=0&filter=true&manufacturer[]=La Mancha
These current guitars are made in China. Some get decent reviews, but to get all solid models, you'll have to spend about $500> and they only have a few all solid models.
Edit: Can you get it to someone that has a fair amount of experience with classicals?
Having a hand's on second opinion would be hugely beneficial. If you can determine it's an all solid guitar, then it's an absolute steal -- but make sure it is structurally sound before putting any money out.
Edit 2: On an older used classical guitar, you have to REALLY be careful that it has not been strung with steel strings -- I know, most people know the difference, but every so often it happens. If that happens, the structural integrity of neck and/or bridge (and even interior bracing) can get trashed. If you are seriously interested (which I agree it is worthy of consideration -- from a remote glance), get it to someone that has good subject matter cred about classicals - especially those made in Spain.
Can you get hands on to actually play it? Do it and see what you think.
With a classical, although it's mostly 'what you see is what you get', there are a few aspects of a guitar you can tweak to address action and sound (really the two big factors to deal with). If it's been unused for more than a month, it needs strings already -- I'd be happy to suggest brands that might work well for you.
Thomann (based in Germany), now offers a brand of the same name (it is relatively new, historically speaking, and the specimen you show seems to be have been built some time ago - so I don't know about the carryover or re-branding of the ones below):
This is the US-directed part of their site -- the results should have filtered just for LaMancha brand guitars -- if I cut/pasted the link properly:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/4-4_size_classical_guitars.html?price-first=0&filter=true&manufacturer[]=La Mancha
These current guitars are made in China. Some get decent reviews, but to get all solid models, you'll have to spend about $500> and they only have a few all solid models.
Edit: Can you get it to someone that has a fair amount of experience with classicals?
Having a hand's on second opinion would be hugely beneficial. If you can determine it's an all solid guitar, then it's an absolute steal -- but make sure it is structurally sound before putting any money out.
Edit 2: On an older used classical guitar, you have to REALLY be careful that it has not been strung with steel strings -- I know, most people know the difference, but every so often it happens. If that happens, the structural integrity of neck and/or bridge (and even interior bracing) can get trashed. If you are seriously interested (which I agree it is worthy of consideration -- from a remote glance), get it to someone that has good subject matter cred about classicals - especially those made in Spain.
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PhredE
Friend of Leo's
Question for jimrosh -- I can't really tell from the photo(s), but can you look into the soundhole at the back and at / around the label, is there a strip of flat and wide bracing running lengthwise under the label? If so, there is a good chance it has a solid back (and most likely, solid sides as well). If all solid, you found a real keeper.
Whether its a good guitar or just an OK guitar, there usually isn't much that goes wrong with an old classical. They seldom need neck resets or have significant structural damage, even frets last a lot longer. For a hundred bucks it is probably a really good way to find out if you like the size and shape of a classical neck and want to learn some of the playing technique.
PhredE
Friend of Leo's
Here is an interesting thread I found on a search for "La Mancha"
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516288
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516288
DuckDodgers
Tele-Holic
It’s a low-end Chinese guitar, and may be one of their 7/8 size models.
It’s hard to find a decent classical guitar amidst all the crap. There are a lot of nylon string guitars around that are designed to appeal to electric players but which lack any real acoustic resonance. They have pickups, active electronics, and a heavy polyurethane finish.
Look for a lightweight guitar with a thin finish and a solid top. Among mass market guitars, are some good ones sold under the Yamaha and Córdoba names.
It’s hard to find a decent classical guitar amidst all the crap. There are a lot of nylon string guitars around that are designed to appeal to electric players but which lack any real acoustic resonance. They have pickups, active electronics, and a heavy polyurethane finish.
Look for a lightweight guitar with a thin finish and a solid top. Among mass market guitars, are some good ones sold under the Yamaha and Córdoba names.
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PhredE
Friend of Leo's
Sorry for the delay -- I meant to respond earlier (had to deal with domestic issues...)
+1. Rodriguez is a solid brand. C1 is considered 'entry' (solid cedar top, lam. back/sides), but that model I believe was built in Spain -- workmanship has been good historically. If it's in good shape and neck/bridge are intact $300 is a very reasonable price (check for prior use of steel strings -- it there is any evidence of that, pass). I've played others in the same series -- and liked what I heard a lot. Ask about the 'restoration' work though. I am curious what that means exactly. Rodriguez used to offer product series that was denoted as "A", "B", "C", etc.. so if you see another with a different model letter, it is probably worth a look if it is reasonable price and in good shape.
Another good Spanish brand is Alhambra. If you can find a good deal on one of those, give it a serious look. The top end can be expensive; but, even the modestly priced lower-end models are quite good guitars. Again, for the lower price range, you're looking at solid cedar over rosewood lam generally. The design and workmanship are pretty consistently good.
Check carefully for bridge separation too. If you can slide a sheet of thin paper in under the bridge anywhere, well, that could indicate a problem. If you sight down the neck like a rifle, and it is noticeably off parallel with the top, the neck angle is likely a problem. The neck should be nearly perfectly flat/straight -- the notion of 'relief' doesn't normally apply for a good classical. Standard action on a classical is about 2.8-3mm on high E at 12th fr, and about 4mm on low E at 12th fr. If the action seems 'high' it is because it is supposed to be. Don't let that bother you -- that's normal.
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PhredE
Friend of Leo's
For Deeve:
Trussrod - does it even have one? Doubtful. That's ok, if built properly it is not needed.
Most classical string sets put less tension on the neck than steel -- say, 160lbs vs. 90lbs. How the neck is attached and if the angle is 'correct' is really the bigger question.
Fretboard radius - any? Dead Flat -- that's how classical guitars roll.
Nut width - how much fatter than my 12 string? 2" or very close to 2" is considered 'standard'
Bridge/saddle const - Bridge is probably rosewood (very standard, but not requirement), bone for saddle gives best tone (if it isn't already, consider an upgrade later). A properly shaped/slotted/filed nut of bone is also a big plus.
Slotted headstock/tuners - new territory for me: They're just tuners - tying / attaching strings may be the biggest difference for you.
Pre-amp/pup - obviously diff: go with what you want; I don't have those on my guitars.
Cutaway : go with what you want; mine are all standard body style/shape
other - what to avoid, regardless of the "great deal" being offered?
Like DuckDodgers said, there are a lot of crappy cheap classical type guitars 'out there'. Even big name brands can produce some fairly inferior/sub-standard guitars. It's always best to aim for top notch materials, construction, workmanship.
Sorry, I'm long-winded. I've played classical since 1982. My main guitar is an Alvarez-(K. Yairi) CY140 -- top of the line brand new in 1981 (a $1000 unit in 1982!!!). I keep it stashed away most times (it starting to get a bit tired in some ways). Anyway, it's handmade Japanese copy of the Ramirez 1a -- solid cedar top, solid rosewood ('Jacaranda') back/sides, bone nut/saddle, ebony fingerboard, French Polish and sounds and plays fantabuous. There is nothing so sublime as a really good acoustic (classical) guitar. Very Spanish design and sound.
Recently, I've picked up a couple of inexpensive European imports (made in Romania) - to add a little diversity and spread the playing time around: These are great, lots of guitar 'for the money':
https://www.thomannmusic.com/pro_natura_gold_serie.htm
$188 (+about $60 shipping), Solid spruce top, solid maple back/sides, traditional Torres bracing, etc
a bit different due to wood substitution for fingerboard/bridge, and a different 'look' (no dark tropical wood) but plays and sounds great (after some basic post-factory prep).
A review last year of the Thomann-brand counterpart to the GEWA unit above (same guitar, same builder, different appearance, but otherwise identical):
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/ngd-thomann-classic-s-4-4.962925/
Trussrod - does it even have one? Doubtful. That's ok, if built properly it is not needed.
Most classical string sets put less tension on the neck than steel -- say, 160lbs vs. 90lbs. How the neck is attached and if the angle is 'correct' is really the bigger question.
Fretboard radius - any? Dead Flat -- that's how classical guitars roll.
Nut width - how much fatter than my 12 string? 2" or very close to 2" is considered 'standard'
Bridge/saddle const - Bridge is probably rosewood (very standard, but not requirement), bone for saddle gives best tone (if it isn't already, consider an upgrade later). A properly shaped/slotted/filed nut of bone is also a big plus.
Slotted headstock/tuners - new territory for me: They're just tuners - tying / attaching strings may be the biggest difference for you.
Pre-amp/pup - obviously diff: go with what you want; I don't have those on my guitars.
Cutaway : go with what you want; mine are all standard body style/shape
other - what to avoid, regardless of the "great deal" being offered?
Like DuckDodgers said, there are a lot of crappy cheap classical type guitars 'out there'. Even big name brands can produce some fairly inferior/sub-standard guitars. It's always best to aim for top notch materials, construction, workmanship.
Sorry, I'm long-winded. I've played classical since 1982. My main guitar is an Alvarez-(K. Yairi) CY140 -- top of the line brand new in 1981 (a $1000 unit in 1982!!!). I keep it stashed away most times (it starting to get a bit tired in some ways). Anyway, it's handmade Japanese copy of the Ramirez 1a -- solid cedar top, solid rosewood ('Jacaranda') back/sides, bone nut/saddle, ebony fingerboard, French Polish and sounds and plays fantabuous. There is nothing so sublime as a really good acoustic (classical) guitar. Very Spanish design and sound.
Recently, I've picked up a couple of inexpensive European imports (made in Romania) - to add a little diversity and spread the playing time around: These are great, lots of guitar 'for the money':
https://www.thomannmusic.com/pro_natura_gold_serie.htm
$188 (+about $60 shipping), Solid spruce top, solid maple back/sides, traditional Torres bracing, etc
a bit different due to wood substitution for fingerboard/bridge, and a different 'look' (no dark tropical wood) but plays and sounds great (after some basic post-factory prep).
A review last year of the Thomann-brand counterpart to the GEWA unit above (same guitar, same builder, different appearance, but otherwise identical):
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/ngd-thomann-classic-s-4-4.962925/
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LGOberean
Doctor of Teleocity
@jimrosh the replies you've received to your thread have given you good information about classical guitars in general and some about the La Mancha. I don't think I can add much to it. Before you posted about this guitar/brand, I'd never heard of "La Mancha" except in the context of "Don Quixote." 
So have you asked for and received more information from the seller? Have you pulled the trigger on it? If not, I'll just make some observations that I hope will be helpful.
Based on just the picture you posted, it looked to me like it had a spruce top (of course, I couldn't tell whether it was solid of not just from the pic) and mahogany back & sides (which I assumed to be laminate). About the claim that this particular guitar was made in Spain, if that is the case, the label should say so. The pic you provided in your OP wasn't clear, enlarging it only made it more grainy.
You can tell that it reads "La Mancha guitars." To the right of the brand name it looks like a graphic of Don Quixote with his lance, mounted on his steed Rocinante. In the lower right hand corner of the label, underneath the image, it looks like the number "292." I don't know what that signifies. It could be a date stamp, but I think it's more likely that it's a model number or serial number.
BTW, this label doesn't look like the labels of La Mancha guitars found in pics on the Internet. This could mean several things, such as it being an older form of label, which would suggest that the guitar you're considering is an older guitar. Or it could be a different guitar brand altogether. A couple of labels I've seen of guitars made in Spain read "Juan de La Mancha," i.e., "John of La Mancha." Beneath that, it reads "Guitarras de Artesanía," literally, "Guitars of craftmanship," possibly meaning "Hand crafted guitars." These labels clearly state that they're "Made in Spain."
(image removed)
I don't know whether that clears thing up some or just muddies the waters more. But if you're still considering this one, you might want to ask for a close up picture of that label.
So have you asked for and received more information from the seller? Have you pulled the trigger on it? If not, I'll just make some observations that I hope will be helpful.
Based on just the picture you posted, it looked to me like it had a spruce top (of course, I couldn't tell whether it was solid of not just from the pic) and mahogany back & sides (which I assumed to be laminate). About the claim that this particular guitar was made in Spain, if that is the case, the label should say so. The pic you provided in your OP wasn't clear, enlarging it only made it more grainy.
You can tell that it reads "La Mancha guitars." To the right of the brand name it looks like a graphic of Don Quixote with his lance, mounted on his steed Rocinante. In the lower right hand corner of the label, underneath the image, it looks like the number "292." I don't know what that signifies. It could be a date stamp, but I think it's more likely that it's a model number or serial number.
BTW, this label doesn't look like the labels of La Mancha guitars found in pics on the Internet. This could mean several things, such as it being an older form of label, which would suggest that the guitar you're considering is an older guitar. Or it could be a different guitar brand altogether. A couple of labels I've seen of guitars made in Spain read "Juan de La Mancha," i.e., "John of La Mancha." Beneath that, it reads "Guitarras de Artesanía," literally, "Guitars of craftmanship," possibly meaning "Hand crafted guitars." These labels clearly state that they're "Made in Spain."
I don't know whether that clears thing up some or just muddies the waters more. But if you're still considering this one, you might want to ask for a close up picture of that label.
El Marin
Friend of Leo's
Hi
Check Alhambra, I have one
HINTS:
-Solid top-> This is a MUST. Solid sides and back if you can pay it
-Cedar top, rosewood sides and back... there are many other combinations but this is mostly the way to go. NO mahogany, no sapelli... avoid maple. Mahogany only for the neck
-Real fretboard, please, not painted in black. Or real ebony or rosewood or granadillo, but NO painted... that screams CHEAP
-Bone nut and bridge (not compensated)
-High tension strings (don't be afraid, they are softer than electric 08-38)
-Harden you nails
-Enjoy
Check Alhambra, I have one
HINTS:
-Solid top-> This is a MUST. Solid sides and back if you can pay it
-Cedar top, rosewood sides and back... there are many other combinations but this is mostly the way to go. NO mahogany, no sapelli... avoid maple. Mahogany only for the neck
-Real fretboard, please, not painted in black. Or real ebony or rosewood or granadillo, but NO painted... that screams CHEAP
-Bone nut and bridge (not compensated)
-High tension strings (don't be afraid, they are softer than electric 08-38)
-Harden you nails
-Enjoy
El Marin
Friend of Leo's
By the way... This is La Mancha... vineyards, flat, windmills and castles and FLAT... did I said FLAT?
image removed
image removed
LGOberean
Doctor of Teleocity
Oh, @jimrosh if that La Mancha is gone or for some reason no longer in the running, but you're still looking for a classical guitar...
...if you come across a Hohner HG-14 in your search, give it serious consideration. Or else alert me to it.
In April of 2014, I bought one in a resale shop for $125. I already knew that guitars made for Hohner in Japanese factories in the '70s and early '80s were typically good quality instruments. This HG-14 was no exception.
Four months later, I had a heart attack and subsequent bypass surgery. In the aftermath of that, I sold some gear to help with medical bills, the HG-14 included. IIRC, I sold it for $150, so I actually made money in the guitar flip. But I still have seller's remorse over letting that guitar go.
...if you come across a Hohner HG-14 in your search, give it serious consideration. Or else alert me to it.
In April of 2014, I bought one in a resale shop for $125. I already knew that guitars made for Hohner in Japanese factories in the '70s and early '80s were typically good quality instruments. This HG-14 was no exception.
Four months later, I had a heart attack and subsequent bypass surgery. In the aftermath of that, I sold some gear to help with medical bills, the HG-14 included. IIRC, I sold it for $150, so I actually made money in the guitar flip. But I still have seller's remorse over letting that guitar go.
LGOberean
Doctor of Teleocity
@El Marin could you shed some light on the Spanish on those "Juan de La Mancha" labels I posted earlier? Specifically, that expression "Guitarras de Artesanía"?
My grade school years were spent in San Juan, Puerto Rico, so I spoke Spanish as a boy. I've used it to some extent here in South Texas, but I don't recall ever having the occasion to speak of something "hand crafted" in Spanish. Does that Spanish expression on those guitar labels refer to hand crafted guitars? Or is it a more general statement, like "guitar craftsmanship"?
My grade school years were spent in San Juan, Puerto Rico, so I spoke Spanish as a boy. I've used it to some extent here in South Texas, but I don't recall ever having the occasion to speak of something "hand crafted" in Spanish. Does that Spanish expression on those guitar labels refer to hand crafted guitars? Or is it a more general statement, like "guitar craftsmanship"?
El Marin
Friend of Leo's
@LGOberean Sure I can... "Guitarras de artesanía" stands for "hand crafted guitars".
An artisan makes things by hand opposite to factory made
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