KISS is now in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame!!!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Big_Bend, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. ce24

    ce24 Poster Extraordinaire

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    In ways its all about show...Kiss. In other ways its about music......Ronstadt. I prefer the music emphasized show.... Dylan/Knopfler etc. I just saw the Tedeschi Trucks band and believe me it was ALL about the music. I do understand the need for show band and their place in R&R. BTW Tedeschi Trucks....one guitar all night for Derek and one guitar all nite for Susan....the only guitar changes was the Bass player he had 2. AMAZing concert.
     
  2. regularslinky

    regularslinky Tele-Afflicted

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    Big KISS fan - I play guitar because of Ace. IMHO their first 8 records - including Alive I and II - are solid records that still sound good Yeah they went downhill after that and started chasing trends. But 8 good rock records + the greatest live rock show ever = HOF is long overdue.

    I hope they perform with Ace and Peter and I hope that leads to one more tour so I can take my kid.
     
  3. christhee68

    christhee68 Friend of Leo's

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    But at least with Eric and Tommy you know the drummer and guitarist are going to show up on time ready to go to work.
     
  4. Luthier Atlanta

    Luthier Atlanta Tele-Afflicted

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  5. StuR

    StuR Banned

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    There's a reason that "Rock and Roll All Nite" is spelled the way it is & also why their first live album is called "Alive". The band that inspired Gene & Paul to do what they've done.
    The same "reason" is what gave "Cheap Trick" their name and that reason isn't in the HoF - and doesn't have much of a prayer of ever getting in.
     
  6. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    Huh?
     
  7. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    To have the answer to that go back to the days when they broke. people are still saying that when "Nevermind" came out that everything changed but I'll say that even before it got out, the music scene already was changing from "Let's party" to "Party's over"

    And it started as early as 1987 that Alternative rock and real metal (Not the LA sunset strip hair bands like Motley Crue, Cynderella, Bon Jovi and Poison) began to bubble up into the main stream if you take a look at the high selling albums that came out from 1987 until 1991 you'll see my point here.

    Because among them were:

    Guns N Roses - "Appetite for destruction"
    Metallica - "And justice for all" and "Metallica" (AKA "The Black album")
    Red Hot Chili Peppers - "Mother's milk" and "BloodSugarSexMagic"
    Jane's addiction - "Nothing shocking" and "Ritual de lo Habitual"
    The Cure - "Desintegration"
    The Beastie Boys - "Check your head"
    The Pixies - "Doolittle"
    Alice in chains - "Face lift"
    Soundgarden - "Badmotorfinger"
    Pantera - "Cowboys from hell"
    Sonic Youth - "Goo" and "Daydream nation"

    All of those albums already had the hallmarks of what made "Nevermind" such a huge succes. So despite what seemingly everybody says that Grunge happened seemingly overnight, they actually had four years of clues about the musical climate already changing but simply ignored them.

    I'd say the pivotal moment of when "Let's party" turned into "Party's over" was when Guns N Roses' "Appetite for destruction" was released. Because when it was released it fit the need of people who wanted something real: not the overblown "I screwed so many chicks" Hairmetal that was being pushed down their throats.

    Guns 'N roses in those days were a band in the vein of the Rolling Stones, not very gifted musicians with swagger and 'tude. "Appetite" was about drug and alcohol addictions, living in poverty, the ruthlessness of living in Los Angeles and the wrong kind of women. Even their big hit "Sweet child o' mine" had a very dark forbading tone "Where do we go now?"

    "Appetite for destruction" became a million seller almost from the get-go and in doing so paved the way for the other bands I mentioned to hit the big time. "And justice for all" would have been just another Metallica album if the single "One" hadn't been picked up by MTV and had people going "Whoa, this is different, I like it." which was the same reaction they had when "Welcome to the jungle" came out a year earlier.

    So while "Nevermind" wasn't the album that swiped all the overblown boybands and hairmetal acts away, it certainly was the last nail in the coffin.


    Neither could Lou Reed, the man couldn't sing in key to save his life.

    Here's the time to make it unclear
    To write off lines that don't make no sense
    I love myself better than you
    I know it's wrong but what can I do?
    And one more special message to go
    and then I'm done and I can go home.

    - Nirvana "On a plain"

    Oh yeah, so Tom Petty, Sir Paul and god knows how many others got a talentless hack behind the kit when they had Dave Grohl drumming?


    This is a riff I wish I came up with.

    And have you heard Krist Novoselic's bass parts on their own, the man is tight and melodic.


    Again: look back at the time they broke.

    - The gulf war.
    - The falling of the Berlin wall
    - The backlash of the eighties economies crashing.

    People were tired of bands glorifying consumerism and doing happy-go-lucky songs about how many girls they screwed. People wanted something real.
     
  8. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    As much as I like to discount retrospective accounts of how things changed overnight, it's as true as it gets in the case of Nirvana. All the other stuff happening, all the bands and albums you cite, they were part of a swelling underground, but it was "Nevermind" that broke things open and let in the tidal wave.
     
  9. CrisHendrix

    CrisHendrix Tele-Afflicted

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    I remember Nirvana being HUGE and playing into a generation type thing.. I never had the same feeling about Pearl Jam or a lot of the other grunge bands, they seemed more like they were playing a classic rock sound to me. But honestly hearing Buddy Holly by Weezer (I guess that was a bit later though) had about the same impact on me as the first time I heard Teen Spirit, and there was a lot of oddity appearing on MTV before that, the Cure stuff in the late 80s, some of the Sonic Youth stuff, "Punk Rock Girl" by the Dead Milkmen, etc.. when Nirvana came along it seemed like a continuation of this stuff, but maybe a bit more polished or hitting the nail directly on the head.

    I remember Guns N Roses kinda falling into that hair band thing, but I thought they were way cooler than bands like Poison or Motley Crue. The first albums I bought were actually Appetite for Destruction, and then a bunch of Cure stuff.
     
  10. Post Toastie

    Post Toastie Poster Extraordinaire

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    Blazer you are the man. You are so spot on on this.
     
  11. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Blazer, I owned every album you cite in your post. I still own most of them. There's not a bad one in the bunch. I think they are all GREAT records. I know what was happening, because I was there. I gotta say, no matter how you slice it, I'm always gonna see Nirvana as a crappy band doing a crappy job of singing and playing crappy songs.

    You are a perfect example of the millions of Nirvana fans worldwide that confuse the heck out of me. I'll never understand how somebody can like so much truly great music, and also like Nirvana. I just don't get it. But one of the great things about music, is how much of it there is, and that we can all like different stuff. I bought the Nirvana records when they dropped. I took them home and listened to them like crazy, trying to figure out what I ws missing. I just KNEW that with that many fans behind them, they had to have something I wasn't seeing. Never could come up with anything.

    I will say, I love what Dave Grohl has become. Never would have guessed that anyone from that band would ever do anything I liked, but he has proven time and again that it can be done. This is going to sound positively awful, but I was actually relieved when Kurt Cobain died. All I could think of was that band was finally gonna go away. I know it's a terrible thing to say, but it's actually how I felt.
     
  12. mtjo62

    mtjo62 Tele-Holic

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    I am glad to see KISS get in. In fact, there were alot of deserving nominees this time around. I have never been a KISS fan, but you can't deny their influence. As to GnRs influence, they definately pulled rock out of the hair band 80's back to more of a roots rock state. However, Deep Purple is one of the biggest influences that paved the way for the Grunge movement. GnR just happened along at an opportune time. Until bands like DP, Moody Blues, BOC, etc., get in, the HOF willl always be a sham.
     
  13. lendryesky

    lendryesky Tele-Afflicted

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    Couldn't play? What about the Sex Pistols, the Ramones, Neil Young? They certainly couldn't play. Couldn't write? I think you're joking there. What Kurt lacked in chops he more than made up in his writing skills, he was a brilliant song writer. Every song he wrote was good, even the demos that weren't released (officially) until a few years ago. He admits that Teen Spirit was his attempt at copying the Pixies, but the Pixies admit that Dig for Fire was an attempt at copying the Talking Heads. Kurt couldn't certainly sing well in a Bob Dylan type of way. He could sing in key as long as he wasn't on drugs during the performances, but that's another story.

    If you didn't get it, maybe you didn't feel alienated at that time like many of the youth did.

    KISS on the other hand made a joke of rock music, turned it into a business rather than a form of art or expression. Sure, I realize musicians need to eat, but nobody took it to the levels Gene and Paul did. A joke IMO
     
  14. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    If you don't get it, perhaps you should try listening to the MTV Unplugged performance again.



    Some great covers:






    The ache and the rasp in that voice? How can you deny it? It's reminiscent of John Lennon somehow.

    Form over content?
     
  15. idjster

    idjster VERY grateful member Silver Supporter

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    Linda Ronstadt! Finally! She's an incredibly talented woman who contributed greatly to music. Really great choice. It makes me happy, and I can ignore other, more questionable, choices.
     
  16. Shango66

    Shango66 Friend of Leo's

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    +1 on Linda
     
  17. J-man

    J-man Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'm still not sure why anyone cares about the RnR HoF. The entries are obviously picked to string the whole thing out as long as possible and to keep people talking about it. It's about as meaningless as award shows get. The people who make the nominations have no connection to music whatsoever as far as I can tell..

    :neutral::neutral::neutral:
     
  18. Stubee

    Stubee Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    You guys sure get serious about this stuff.

    Never a big Kiss fan--my older brother was & remains totally enraptured with them--but I know what they did. They were a pretty darned good rock band.

    I didn't get 'into' Nirvana, I am ancient but I know what they were (a pretty darned good rock band) I just recently got one of their CDs.

    I like to crank "Teen Spirit" when the wife is riding along with me. She probably hates it but knows why I like it: rock on.
     
  19. Coach56

    Coach56 One of the Boys

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    I loved that KISS took what Alice Cooper was doing, removed the goth aspects, added heavy kabuki styling and just made it fun as heck.

    Alice was the guy in my crowd, but his shows were always really dark and sometimes a bit on the disturbing side, with KISS you got a party and some clever, basic R&R.

    Good on them.

    Linda definitely touched a part of my youth, and the Cat, I cannot tell you the effect that man's music had on the ladies I was dating back then.

    All good in my estimate, the rest of the guys will get in eventually.
     
  20. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I wish I knew how to do the multiple quote thing...

    Anyhow, I felt alienated plenty. To the point that I left my hometown in 1993 at the ripe old age of 19, and have not been back to this day. I guess I just found my shelter and inspiration in other stuff.

    There has been a lot of citing of other guys who couldn't sing or play well that I love. Write, play, sing, I don't ask for anybody to be brilliant at all three. Matter of fact, I truly believe you can make brilliant and timeless music with only one of three. The bringing up of Lou Reed was a great example of this. Cobain might have held something for me, with just one of the three. Unfortunately, he had none of them from where I'm sitting.

    As for Kiss, they are in because they deserve it. Ace probably inspired more kids to grab a guitar than anybody ever after The Beatles. They were one of the defining bands of an entire era of rock and roll. If you think they were the worst ever about wringing every buck they could out of marketing and merchandising, take a look at the annual Grateful Dead merchandising figures. Yikes.

    I'm no big Kiss fan. But I know why they are in. I absolutely dislike everything about Nirvana's music, but again, I know why they are in. As I said in my initial post, their influence is undeniable. That they were the undisputed heavy weight champs of their scene and genre is a fact of life. I don't get it, and I think their fans are all nuts. But that doesn't change what happened.
     
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