Kind of curious here (old tech post)

[24 track]

I cut my teeth on the older Tech of the day , we arent talking about dinosaur tech from the 50's but more from the 70's 80's 90's when new advancements were being made , midi had been developed , digital was in its infancy etc. ( 50's tech has its proper place EG Nuemann U87 Mics)

how many of us use tech from this period ?
I may use a cassette for quick mixes just hear balances , panning ,away from the studio
I have a 4 track Yamaha portastudio that can be used as a an instrument ( record 4 indepndant tracks and fade them in or out at will
or an Ipod to listen to a flow of Ideas several mixes back to back to hear how one tune flows into the next
some of the old school midi effects had more midi implimentations than some of the newer devices like the Korg SSD 2000 one of the first all in one samplers, delay , with flange, phase, chorus , echo and all addressable via midi
I still have a Fostex 8 track R2R to play with and a Revox PR99 mastering deck

this is not a knock on todays tech but a hybrid or better yet amalgonation of tech , Maybe its just me but I see a mass potential by uing all thats infront of you and not dissmissing anything because of its age.

one of the main arguments may be 8 bit,16 bit,24 bit 32 bit, upto 192 KHZ recording but this fall down as in order to mix down to the specific compressions is lost at approx 41- 48 KHZ final product for internet .

May be I'm just Nutz, I dont see things as a linear line as most do. but Latest does not mean best in some reguards just a different approach.

What say you?

 

[memorex]

I was an electronics and audio engineer in the 1980's. I worked in a couple of 48-track studios, one equipped with 48-track Dolby A. I even engineered on a couple albums that went gold or platinum.

During that time period, I frequently recorded my own projects on a Tascam Portastudio, and many were played on one of the larger FM radio stations. Did they sound as good as the stuff I recorded in the big studio? Of course not, but they sounded good enough.

Does digital recording have the potential to sound better than tape. Yes. But it depends more on who's doing the recording, and who's being recorded, just like it always did.

Given 16-bit, 44.1khz digital recording, which is the standard for CD's, and the potential to record that and much better on any computer based DAW, if you can't record an album that easily exceeds the sound quality of any album by the Beatles, or even Steely Dan, it's only because of the limitations of your own talent. There are really no other excuses.

 

[KeithDavies 100]

No - don't tell me that. Anything but that my talent is limited.

Are you sure it's not the DAW I'm using? Maybe I don't have enough guitars? Pedals?

 

[24 track]

I was an electronics and audio engineer in the 1980's. I worked in a couple of 48-track studios, one equipped with 48-track Dolby A. I even engineered on a couple albums that went gold or platinum.

During that time period, I frequently recorded my own projects on a Tascam Portastudio, and many were played on one of the larger FM radio stations. Did they sound as good as the stuff I recorded in the big studio? Of course not, but they sounded good enough.

Does digital recording have the potential to sound better than tape. Yes. But it depends more on who's doing the recording, and who's being recorded, just like it always did.

Given 16-bit, 44.1khz digital recording, which is the standard for CD's, and the potential to record that and much better on any computer based DAW, if you can't record an album that easily exceeds the sound quality of any album by the Beatles, or even Steely Dan, it's only because of the limitations of your own talent. There are really no other excuses.

I worked out of Water Street sound and Ocean Sound in Vancouver I know exactly what you mean and describe here , No truer words LOL

but I will add to this Imagination ! is another key component. the ability to take it to another level and to see the result no matter how unconventional , sets it apart , which is what propted this post .

I watched a You tube on Lisa Bella Donna ( synth giant ) her personal studio .She was using every thing from pre-made 8 track tapes to sequencers , recorded to several Fostex 8 Track R2R s , I was surprized at how much of the same equiptment she used that I have at my disposal and have used in recordings .

I find some times and for the most part engineers/producers/ musicians think in linear lines only , which only require getting a clean signal to tape , and this sounds good , but lacks imagination and innovation

I once took a guitar signal ran it through a 3 way cross over , each out went to an eq to enphisize that cross over point, then each out put was sent to a separate effects , eg , Bass frequencies went to reverb, mid frequencies weny to phase, top end went to drenched Echo/ddl , as the musician played up the neck a differnt effect kicked in and there was a slight crossover at the set Crossover points . just for an example .( took a while to set but when done it was effective)

 

[Daytona.57]

I still use old tech, in our jam party band, Fender PA 100 head, Peavey Mark IV bass head and Transporter cab with a 15" JBL 226L, that was used by the 80s contract bassist at A&M Canada, to track a number of albums, Peavey Bandit 65 and Peavey powered mixer.

We are not touring and play for pleasure, so old tech is still reliable at gig volumes. In order to improve my Son's musical ability, I had to buy whatever I could afford at the time and we are still using it.

 

[24 track]

I still use old tech, in our jam party band, Fender PA 100 head, Peavey Mark IV bass head and Transporter cab with a 15" JBL 226L, that was used by the 80s contract bassist at A&M Canada, to track a number of albums, Peavey Bandit 65 and Peavey powered mixer.

We are not touring and play for pleasure, so old tech is still reliable at gig volumes. In order to improve my Son's musical ability, I had to buy whatever I could afford at the time and we are still using it.

other than the ability to use USB etc really alot of new gear has the same functions of the older analog gear and it all does what it is supposed to do ,then as in now !

I have guitar amps from the early 60's and late 60's that i use

 

[Kandinskyesque]

I was watching an interview between Rick Beato and Brian May a couple of nights ago and they were discussing the recording of Bohemian Rhapsody.
They had to bounce all those vocals because of the track limitations; some younger folk won't even understand that concept in these days of unlimited tracks.

I wonder if having to commit more to a track, knowing that it couldn't be edited in the same way they can now, meant that the actual performance element when recording reflected musicians doing their best because there was no safety net.

Brian May also mentioned that tape itself offered a form of compression which I remember even back in the 90s when we used 2 synched 8 track ADAT machines sounded great.

My favourite mic for my solo gigs is my LDC Audio Technica AT 4033 which I bought in '92, initially for recording.
When I discovered a few Bluegrass bands were using them for single mic shows, I gave it a try on my solo gigs (around '94).
This good old Japanese made mic (they're now made in China) still sounds better to me than my Neumann KMS105 because of the larger sweet spot, meaning I can still sing and look down the fretboard.
No feedback issues either because I use IEMs and I actually think having a compact LDC mic on a shock mount adds to the visual aspect of the gig.

 

[KeithDavies 100]

I was watching an interview between Rick Beato and Brian May a couple of nights ago and they were discussing the recording of Bohemian Rhapsody.
They had to bounce all those vocals because of the track limitations; some younger folk won't even understand that concept in these days of unlimited tracks.

I wonder if having to commit more to a track, knowing that it couldn't be edited in the same way they can now, meant that the actual performance element when recording reflected musicians doing their best because there was no safety net.

Brian May also mentioned that tape itself offered a form of compression which I remember even back in the 90s when we used 2 synched 8 track ADAT machines sounded great.

My favourite mic for my solo gigs is my LDC Audio Technica AT 4033 which I bought in '92, initially for recording.
When I discovered a few Bluegrass bands were using them for single mic shows, I gave it a try on my solo gigs (around '94).
This good old Japanese made mic (they're now made in China) still sounds better to me than my Neumann KMS105 because of the larger sweet spot, meaning I can still sing and look down the fretboard.
No feedback issues either because I use IEMs and I actually think having a compact LDC mic on a shock mount adds to the visual aspect of the gig.

I did a home recording course a while ago, centred around a DAW. Really useful. But I remember one of the things was that I messed up a take and the lecturer said it didn't matter - we'll just lift the bit where I'd played it correctly in an earlier verse. This made me realise that you could do a great recording of a song even if you couldn't actually play it all the way through correctly!

I also recorded a piano track. I don't play piano, and though I'd had several attempts it was still poor. However, when we came to mix the whole thing - final session of the course - the guest lecturer was a guy that did this for a living, having worked a lot with Simon Cowell and his acts. I apologised for the piano, saying it really wasn't very good but was the best I'd been able to do. He had a listen and said, no that's fine, we can work with that.

He then showed me how to mix everything, bring the vocals to the fore, place everything around it etc. And then he very cleverly put the piano way back in the mix so you could hear it tinkling away, and it added to the track, but you couldn't actually hear it well enough to know it was rubbish!

Very clever. Give me auto-tune, and I could have been famous!!!

 

[loopfinding]

I don’t miss 4 tracks or hardware digital recorders at all. I have trouble finishing stuff as is, I don’t really want another hurdle.

That being said, some interfaces are just good, regardless of whether they’re the old way or not. Something like ableton kicks old drum machines’ ass for arranging, but a physical 16 button 808 chase light sequencer is just the fastest, most immediate way of laying a beat down.

 

[radiocaster]

Lots. Sequencers from the 90s, some newer; some drum machines from the 80s, but more from the 90s and newer; digital recorders I would say rather early 2000s. Newer synths mostly.

 

[MarkieMark]

I wonder if having to commit more to a track, knowing that it couldn't be edited in the same way they can now, meant that the actual performance element when recording reflected musicians doing their best because there was no safety net.

It's not just a different pressure to the performance, but "committing" forces one to move forward with a project.

I can't tell you how many fairly good song projects I have seen go unfinished... forever... due to "failure to commit"
Or the guy struggling to make his project work due to trying to run 60 tracks of work in progress- "I need to upgrade my computer!" No, you need to commit and print some of those damned tracks!

It's a thing.

 

[24 track]

It's not just a different pressure to the performance, but "committing" forces one to move forward with a project.

I can't tell you how many fairly good song projects I have seen go unfinished... forever... due to "failure to commit"
Or the guy struggling to make his project work due to trying to run 60 tracks of work in progress- "I need to upgrade my computer!" No, you need to commit and print some of those damned tracks!

It's a thing.

very true ,
I was in a band and the singer thought he had star power ( a rookie mistake ) so he has one of these Zoom recorders, he lays down a vocal ..meh by most standards , so I tell him to find another track and do it again but leave the original track , he does. So as he is listening back the second one is the keeper. When the chorus comes in I tell him to push the main vocal to the left and add some Reverb to the first track and slightly push it to the right , his voice popped of the track and came alive all of a sudden , during the verse push it all back into place and rince and repeat for the chorus , he was so happy he crapped a rainbow.

Dave gilmour used to do upto 20 vocal track and mix them in at verious points as each track was slightly different but of course he had the ability to do so in his studio.

being indecisive can be a killer in the studio and there is no excuse if you have virtual tracks

 

[24 track]

Lots. Sequencers from the 90s, some newer; some drum machines from the 80s, but more from the 90s and newer; digital recorders I would say rather early 2000s. Newer synths mostly.

I have a large analog synth system but 2 digital synths , part of this post is because of this , the newer analog synth reissues have the capability to use midi and integrate well the digital stuff with out issue , this alows me to use a mini moog clone and trigger an arp 2600 with out a problem , or take a roland gr55 guitar synth and trigger virtual synths and the analog synths . so many options its crazy .

but I love that alot of the older gear is still usefull and does what it was intended for , but is often overlooked for the new and shiny latest and greatest device , lacking in a lot of cases is the imagination to use it.

 

[ClashCityTele]

A few years ago I upgrade my PC to Win 10 and my Lexicon Alpha interface didn't have Win 10 drivers.
I wanted to demo some songs over the Xmas holidays.
I dragged out my old Win XP laptop but the battery was dead & the psu cable had snapped.
So I set up my old Yamaha MT1-X 4 track, demoed some songs & did a stereo mix to my laptop when the new psu arrived.

Saved by old tech!

 

[radiocaster]

but I love that alot of the older gear is still usefull and does what it was intended for , but is often overlooked for the new and shiny latest and greatest device , lacking in a lot of cases is the imagination to use it.

But a lot of newer gear has less features, other than a USB port.

For example, many newer digital recorders don't have external effects loops.

Many newer hardware sequencers don't allow patterns of more than 4 bars, while ones from the 90s had 8 bars or more. Drum machines from 10 years ago rarely had more than one bar plus fill and no song mode. Newer sequencers and drum machines don't usually have a song mode.

 

[Mjark]

I use old Fender amps. I had a Yamaha 4 track but I gave it away. It was nice to learn on.

 

[Cam]

Thinking about my dust covered Fostex 4 track cassette recorder, I realize I have quite a few old school "just in case...." items in the stuff. Just in case what, I am not sure. But if I get rid of it that's when it will be needed.

 

[24 track]

But a lot of newer gear has less features, other than a USB port.

For example, many newer digital recorders don't have external effects loops.

Many newer hardware sequencers don't allow patterns of more than 4 bars, while ones from the 90s had 8 bars or more. Drum machines from 10 years ago rarely had more than one bar plus fill and no song mode. Newer sequencers and drum machines don't usually have a song mode.

exactly what the point of this post is , a lot of gear from that era had full midi implimentation , now you get CC control only a very watered down implimentation at best .

if you have say Logic as your daw , you have the ability to build and script all midi functions for a devise and incorporate the automationinto the final mix , how ever the device is only CC controled , what a waste .
so the ability to incorporate some older technology with some of the latest devices opens a very wide door of possibilities and should not be overlooked

 

[24 track]

I did a home recording course a while ago, centred around a DAW. Really useful. But I remember one of the things was that I messed up a take and the lecturer said it didn't matter - we'll just lift the bit where I'd played it correctly in an earlier verse. This made me realise that you could do a great recording of a song even if you couldn't actually play it all the way through correctly!

I also recorded a piano track. I don't play piano, and though I'd had several attempts it was still poor. However, when we came to mix the whole thing - final session of the course - the guest lecturer was a guy that did this for a living, having worked a lot with Simon Cowell and his acts. I apologised for the piano, saying it really wasn't very good but was the best I'd been able to do. He had a listen and said, no that's fine, we can work with that.

He then showed me how to mix everything, bring the vocals to the fore, place everything around it etc. And then he very cleverly put the piano way back in the mix so you could hear it tinkling away, and it added to the track, but you couldn't actually hear it well enough to know it was rubbish!

Very clever. Give me auto-tune, and I could have been famous!!!

instead of auto tune try Melodyne , this will allow you to take an audio track and convert the audio signal to a midi track , this is usefull if you want to edit any mistakes , but also if you want to trigger a midi device instead of the say, guitar you just recorded.

or say have a synth follow a vocal track nuence for nuence , HMM the possibilities are staggering! LOL

 

[24 track]

A few years ago I upgrade my PC to Win 10 and my Lexicon Alpha interface didn't have Win 10 drivers.
I wanted to demo some songs over the Xmas holidays.
I dragged out my old Win XP laptop but the battery was dead & the psu cable had snapped.
So I set up my old Yamaha MT1-X 4 track, demoed some songs & did a stereo mix to my laptop when the new psu arrived.

Saved by old tech!

I have the same 4 track unit I plan to use it with my synth set up to lay 4 tracks of specified recordings or sound effects and fade them into tracks as I play , a great piece of equipment and can be used out side the box , not just for recording songs . I have my daw and an Akai 4416 hard drive recorder for that