Justin Biebers "anyone" gives songwriting credit to 8 people

Mike M

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Posts
1,514
Location
07040
Is it possible that some of the co-writing credits are for other reasons?

I'm thinking back to Chuck Berry's "Maybellene", which was co-credited to Alan Freed (famous DJ) and Russ Fratto. Chuck Berry mentioned that he wrote the song on his own and he was surprised when the record came out with Freed and Fratto's names as co-writers. I think it was somewhat common practice in those days to assign co-writing credits to DJs who promoted the record, while Fratto was credited because he loaned the Chess Records brothers some money and provided printing/stationery for the label (literally).

Similarly, several (if not most) of B.B. King's early records credit the Bihari brother(s) and/or others, sometimes under pseudonyms, even though they may not have actually co-written the song (at least according to the common concept of music composition).

The Monkees wrote one of their own songs called "No Time" but credited it to their engineer Hank Cicalo as a thank-you for helping them when they started playing their own instruments in the studio. He apparently bought a house with the royalties he got on that.

Maybe Bieber's stationery guy or engineer or someone else in his entourage got a writing credit just because?

And "Maybellene" was copped from an old country tune called "Ida Red"

Back them (40-60's), it was very common for the songwriter to give the artist and even the producers songwriting credit on a song, just to get it recorded. Even a great song made no money unless someone recorded it, so it was just considered part of doing business.

Today there are so many writers because most parts of the song are farmed out to writers and producers who specialize in that one department.

The rhythm track will go to producers who only do that. The top Line (melody) will be farmed out to writers/producers who only do that etc.
 

Mike M

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Posts
1,514
Location
07040
I've read that before but I don't see much resemblance between the two songs.

Some good stuff here.

It was a famous Western Swing tune with Bob Willis, I can see how Chuck used it as the bedrock for a new song

https://www.npr.org/2000/07/02/1076141/maybellene

"But Leonard Chess was fascinated by another, more upbeat song, "Ida Mae," that Berry had adapted from a traditional country tune called "Ida Red."

Chess was sure the new song could be a hit, but he didn't like the name. It was too rural, and he thought its similarity to "Ida Red" might pose copyright hassles.

"And that was a problem, so nobody could think of a name," pianist Johnnie Johnson says. "We looked up on the windowsill, and there was a mascara box up there with Maybellene written on it. And Leonard Chess said, 'Why don't we name the damn thing "Maybellene"?'"

That was no problem for Berry, who cared more that the beat of the song not be disturbed.

'Maybellene' has the same rhythm as 'Ida Red,' like dah-di-dah, you know, 'Maybellene,' 'Ida Red,' you know. So rhythm I had, but I had somebody else's title, you know. So that's how "Maybellene" came up."
 

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
Some good stuff here.

It was a famous Western Swing tune with Bob Willis, I can see how Chuck used it as the bedrock for a new song

https://www.npr.org/2000/07/02/1076141/maybellene

"But Leonard Chess was fascinated by another, more upbeat song, "Ida Mae," that Berry had adapted from a traditional country tune called "Ida Red."

Chess was sure the new song could be a hit, but he didn't like the name. It was too rural, and he thought its similarity to "Ida Red" might pose copyright hassles.

"And that was a problem, so nobody could think of a name," pianist Johnnie Johnson says. "We looked up on the windowsill, and there was a mascara box up there with Maybellene written on it. And Leonard Chess said, 'Why don't we name the damn thing "Maybellene"?'"

That was no problem for Berry, who cared more that the beat of the song not be disturbed.

'Maybellene' has the same rhythm as 'Ida Red,' like dah-di-dah, you know, 'Maybellene,' 'Ida Red,' you know. So rhythm I had, but I had somebody else's title, you know. So that's how "Maybellene" came up."
Yes, I've read all of that before. I still don't think the songs sound alike
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
642
Location
Scotland
Being an old dude like most here I am looking for new songs I can play on the streets busking, and thanks to Rick Beato I came across "Anyone"
I haven't been listening on radio once since at least 2004. I can pinpoint this because I moved 2004, nor do I have spotify (I had to google to find out it was called spotify - no joke).
I do hear some new music at the gym, or a store. If i like what I hear I google it. sometimes someone sends me a link. Or you guys post something new to me.

But I was surprised to find that it is a collaboration between 8 people when I looked it up.

Songwriter(s)
I know Taylor Swift often have 3 people behind the songs, but eight? Is anything personal left? Its seems more like a fabricated product than a song to me.

I thought I post it here because it goes beyond the songwriting forum. Its really not about "how to write a song" but the music industry in general.


Eight 'writers' is a committee.
I'm no autocrat but generally in a committee of 8 people you usually get 9 opinions and they end up agreeing on the worst idea.
I'm too long in the tooth to even listen to it to find out whether my suspicions are confirmed.
There's so much brilliant new music out there, that takes a bit of hunting for, but well worth it (BBC Radio 6 music is a great source) that I've no time to check whether plastic cheese tastes of plastic.
 
Last edited:

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
Eight 'writers' is a committee.
I'm no autocrat but my generally in a committee of 8 people you usually get 9 opinions and they end up agreeing on the worst idea.
I'm too long in the tooth to even listen to it to find out whether my suspicions are confirmed.
There's so much brilliant new music out there, that takes a bit of hunting for, but well worth it (BBC Radio 6 music is a great source) that I've no time to check whether plastic cheese tastes of plastic.
What music do you call " brilliant?" I'm curious...
 

Mike M

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Posts
1,514
Location
07040
Yes, I've read all of that before. I still don't think the songs sound alike

If you take out the fiddles, change the melody from a country whine, to more of an R & B rap, change the beat from a county two step to more of a rock and roll rhythm, you can hear the basic bones of Maybelline in Ida Red.

 

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
If you take out the fiddles, change the melody from a country whine, to more of an R & B rap, change the beat from a county two step to more of a rock and roll rhythm, you can hear the basic bones of Maybelline in Ida Red.


I agree. All you have to do is change the words, the melody and the rhythm and it's the same song.
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
642
Location
Scotland
What music do you call " brilliant?" I'm curious...
It varies too much to pin it down after 50+ years of listening, I was a record library nerd until the internet made more music than I could possibly conceive available. I wouldn't know where to start.

I just looked at my Spotify data for 2021 and my 5 most played new albums were:
1. Nick Cave and Warren Ellis: Carnage
2. Mogwaii: As the Love Continues
3. L'rain: Fatigue
4. Lord Huron: Long Lost
5. The Byson Family: Kick the Traces
I've spent my 45 years as a musician aspiring to sing like Sam Cooke and play the guitar like John Martyn.

Hopefully you can glean something from that around what I would call brilliant.
 

trev333

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Posts
29,976
Location
Coolum Beach,Australia
a couple of lefty's in Bob Willis' band.... never seen a lefty fiddle player before... and a guy on a flipped righty guitar... cool..:)
 

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
It varies too much to pin it down after 50+ years of listening, I was a record library nerd until the internet made more music than I could possibly conceive available. I wouldn't know where to start.

I just looked at my Spotify data for 2021 and my 5 most played new albums were:
1. Nick Cave and Warren Ellis: Carnage
2. Mogwaii: As the Love Continues
3. L'rain: Fatigue
4. Lord Huron: Long Lost
5. The Byson Family: Kick the Traces
I've spent my 45 years as a musician aspiring to sing like Sam Cooke and play the guitar like John Martyn.

Hopefully you can glean something from that around what I would call brilliant.
Are you from the UK where brilliant means something different from what it means in the USA?

No matter. That list would be like a list of my favorite albums that a lot of folks might not have heard of.

Cool, though. Thanks for posting it!
:)
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
642
Location
Scotland
Are you from the UK where brilliant means something different from what it means in the USA?

No matter. That list would be like a list of my favorite albums that a lot of folks might not have heard of.

Cool, though. Thanks for posting it!
:)
I'm from Scotland, Glasgow originally now remote rural near Loch Lomond.

Brilliant, for me, means, done exceedingly well, above very good, unique in a sense, outside of the norm, something that draws my attention away from the mainstream. I suppose like a bright light among a background of lights with an average brightness.

I hope that helps.
 

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
I'm from Scotland, Glasgow originally now remote rural near Loch Lomond.

Brilliant, for me, means, done exceedingly well, above very good, unique in a sense, outside of the norm, something that draws my attention away from the mainstream. I suppose like a bright light among a background of lights with an average brightness.

I hope that helps.
Cool! My Mom told me that we're Scots-Irish, so, hello!
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
642
Location
Scotland
Cool! My Mom told me that we're Scots-Irish, so, hello!
Then we may even be related though possibly not since Scots-Irish aka Ulster-Scots in the US were originally Scottish lowlanders who moved to the North of Ireland then a whole lot emigrated to the US and Canada from Belfast in the 18th and 19th Centuries.

I'm Scots, Irish Parents (from the southern counties) and before then a weird cocktail of Irish, Italian and Polish. I found that out via a short dalliance with genealogy, my parents told me very little, they still curse in Irish Gaelic though.
No doubt there will also be an element of Viking pillage in me also.
 

2HBStrat

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
2,478
Location
Four Rivers Area of Middle America
Then we may even be related though possibly not since Scots-Irish aka Ulster-Scots in the US were originally Scottish lowlanders who moved to the North of Ireland then a whole lot emigrated to the US and Canada from Belfast in the 18th and 19th Centuries.

I'm Scots, Irish Parents (from the southern counties) and before then a weird cocktail of Irish, Italian and Polish. I found that out via a short dalliance with genealogy, my parents told me very little, they still curse in Irish Gaelic though.
No doubt there will also be an element of Viking pillage in me also.
I know very little of my ancestry on either side. I have a feeling that I'm descended from criminal types on both sides who wanted to forget their past.:D
 




Top