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Justin Biebers "anyone" gives songwriting credit to 8 people

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by claes, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    See them live. I saw the last tour where they co-headlined with Graveyard. Both bands were spectacular, but Uncle Acid was jaw-dropping. One of the best concerts I've ever seen! \m/
     
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  2. srblue5

    srblue5 Tele-Holic

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    Each of the 8 people thought the other person was responsible for coming up with a memorable hook. :lol:
     
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  3. srblue5

    srblue5 Tele-Holic

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    I became involved in making an album a few years ago that turned into an exercise in bland pop making. I thought it would be an interesting mix of pop, EDM, and my own interests in blues/jazz/rock. I saw the writing on the wall when the leader sent out a spreadsheet outlining a strategy for the album and each individual song, e.g. “We need a dance track, we need two acoustic songs, etc.” No, thanks.
     
  4. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    okay, as much as i hate limp bizkit, i do think they at least made the effort to make some kind of statement, at least at one point in their career.

    but i disagree about pop. there are some real deliberate devices being forced on the listener in something like "toxic" by britney spears. or something like "bad romance" by lady gaga. stuff now is very "don't rock the boat," "just be chill." the melodies are super simple, the sounds really familiar, etc. and there's totally a way to do simple effectively (aaliyah's "rock the boat," justin timberlake's "my love," etc.) but it's just not happening right now.
     
  5. stormsedge

    stormsedge Friend of Leo's

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    It is big business. (without having read all the posts...sorry)

    If I were making the kind of $$$s some of these performers are making...I'd probably keep a team around me as well, to ensure continued growth and viability---there are so many folks relying on the wage that comes from a successful big name...a real responsibility.

    Edit: that said...my 29 years of success in the military had more to do with the quality and effort of those supporting me than anything I did personally, other than facilitate.
     
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  6. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Toxic is one of Britney’s best, to be honest (great hooks in that song), Bad Romance is not Lady Gaga’s best but it’s pop through and through, for the time they were put out. The ‘pop song’ cycle is faster these days, and it has to stick quick or it just doesn’t work, as in making enough money. I guess I don’t know what you mean when you say ‘good’ pop music has to ‘rock the boat’, has to not ‘be chill’. It’s not about appeasing the music enthusiast and meat popsicle bands so much as it is getting played in clubs, getting downloaded and clicked on YouTube, and being accessible to the folks who consume music in a disposable manner, as it fits their ideal lifestyle. I.e. can you dance to it?
     
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  7. ravindave_3600

    ravindave_3600 Friend of Leo's

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    Probably had the same 8 people working on the top 100 generic hits of the last decade! They didnt have to research, it's just how that crowd of technicianz sound.

    "Passed around until complete"? In that case, maybe Bieber ISN'T writing mature pop songs. He (or somebody) has a concept or hook that 8 other people develop into a "mature pop song"...and are happy to have him attach his name so it sells.

    1390446683000-KARLOFF-FRANKENSTEIN-TIGHT-2851305.jpeg
     
  8. micpoc

    micpoc Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    It might be interesting to study pop hits—I mean actual “hit songs”, not just anything called pop music—of the past 10–20 years to see how many songs were written by ONE person. It used to be pretty common.
     
  9. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    oh i just mean it either has to have some sort of edge to it, or some sort of gimmick, or just some gamble either by sequence or device to poke out and catch attention - push the listener's mind into not forgetting about it. obviously when you do that, you're going to start taking some aesthetic sides, maybe isolating some listeners, but strengthening others. if it doesn't have that, it's usually just forgettable, i don't think just a pleasant hook or danceable groove can really carry it. if we look at top 20 or top 10 pop songs of the last 50 years, i'm sure we can look at many and go "okay, this is the thing in/about this song."

    i find a lot of stuff now i can't really tell one song from the next cause everyone is afraid of doing something even the slightest bit out of line, even within the confines of pop. stuff like "sorry" by beyonce or "hotline bling" by drake stick out in my mind not necessarily because they're so amazingly produced, but because someone at least had the balls to make some decisions to differentiate them (the trippy scatterbrained stuff on sorry, the weird lo-fi timmy thomas sample on hotline). always generic music in most of the hot 100 in any era, but the top (outside of some hip hop) is looking real generic as of late. i think the most the bieber team ever stuck its neck out was on the purpose era hits, but it wasn't really super crazy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  10. Fenderdad1950

    Fenderdad1950 Tele-Afflicted

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    Ah !!!!!!!!!!! It's the Beiber :eek:
     
  11. Addnine

    Addnine Tele-Holic

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    It's a product. They're the assembly-line drones. See Modern Times, by Charlie Chaplin, or Lang's Metropolis.

    Nice hairdo though.

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  12. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    To me you’re describing the craft of the producers. I know it’s old fashioned here, hence the quips on ‘music decline’ since it’s no longer about a single writer or two, ok less than three song writers. However, the producer has been elevated in the post hip-hop world to be an important artist in their own right. Post-sample rip-offs means a ‘hit’ song will have multiple song credits.

    I see it as a cycle, a grouping of sounds that work and eventually coalesce into a sterile, formulaic blob, and then by reaction and rejection, new blood comes in to ‘re-invent’ a paradigm. No, this doesn’t mean we get to play folk acoustic jams because that’s ‘real music’. The reinvention occurs within the framework of the established style. Those who have ‘balls’ are described as so because they have a unique vision in their craft.

    Given that, personally I am a music enthusiast/player/creator, and I didn’t limit my listening before and never will. Gaga, Niki, Cardi B, I enjoy their music but I’m not trying to over analyze it or recreate it. It’s just for now, and some of it sucks and some of it slays. Doesn’t really matter, there’s a new song coming next season. That’s what I mean by pop music. I’m not one that feels pop music is a genre, it’s only ‘popular’ music to me, made for mass consumption. In no way does that lessen what it is, as ‘good’ music is music that makes me feel good (feel anything, really), and gives me a natural high :)
     
  13. tanplastic

    tanplastic Tele-Holic

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    I'm thinking it's more production than actually writing parts.
     
  14. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    yeah, i think part of not having a lot of reaction and rejection nowadays is just because the market figured it could go straight to niches and bypass doping the top 40 with it. we sure have a lot of "pop indie," "pop techno," etc., in other words "mainstream underground" markets nowadays. so current top of the pop music of the last decade sort of sits in this commercial no man's land, wallpaper music, whereas previous types always had some sort of subculture riding underneath that it was capitalizing on or appropriating from. i think the last big thing in top 40 was capitalizing on EDM, but the EDM movement wasn't as big or strong of a cultural force as proper dance music or hip hop in the 90s/00s, "college" rock in the late 80s/early 90s, synthpop/post punk in the early 80s, etc., the list goes on.

    if this were the "old days," i'm sure someone would have tried to make a top 40 radio-friendly version of vaporwave or some other pastiche/clusterf*cky zoomer internet music by now. but instead i just can't really tell the difference between top 10 hits and royalty free library music most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  15. srblue5

    srblue5 Tele-Holic

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    Is it possible that some of the co-writing credits are for other reasons?

    I'm thinking back to Chuck Berry's "Maybellene", which was co-credited to Alan Freed (famous DJ) and Russ Fratto. Chuck Berry mentioned that he wrote the song on his own and he was surprised when the record came out with Freed and Fratto's names as co-writers. I think it was somewhat common practice in those days to assign co-writing credits to DJs who promoted the record, while Fratto was credited because he loaned the Chess Records brothers some money and provided printing/stationery for the label (literally).

    Similarly, several (if not most) of B.B. King's early records credit the Bihari brother(s) and/or others, sometimes under pseudonyms, even though they may not have actually co-written the song (at least according to the common concept of music composition).

    The Monkees wrote one of their own songs called "No Time" but credited it to their engineer Hank Cicalo as a thank-you for helping them when they started playing their own instruments in the studio. He apparently bought a house with the royalties he got on that.

    Maybe Bieber's stationery guy or engineer or someone else in his entourage got a writing credit just because?
     
  16. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    This writers room mentality is long established. People write stuff, others rewrite. Demos get taken and new lyrics written. It’s a factory.

    I respect pop music today because in some, there’s actually a lot of people taking risks to stand out, without reverting to grating amounts of novelty. Inventive production in particular. Much better than the vast majority of the really dismal 90s stuff - a huge low point in pop music for me. Around the edge of the decent stuff there’s always rafts of identikit trash but that’s been the record industry for the past 70 years. It’s just people only remember the standouts. Watching the old Top of the Pops being rerun on TV in the UK has shown just how much rubbish has been lost to time!
     
  17. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'm not a fan of Justin Bieber, but giving random fans who participate a chunk of the royalties from a Bieber song is a straight-up nice thing to do.

    The internet has hooked us all up globally, for better or worse. Economies of scale can become planetary. Think about that. Think about the money a global pop song can aggregate, and then think about how picking some people off each continent to receive royalties from a song would flush some areas with cash they didn't have before.

    This would probably work as a novelty number, not as an SOP, but it's a clever and generous idea.

    Good on the Bieb, this time.

    UPDATE:

    Hang on, reading challenged. "Anyone" is the name of the song? LOL. Ok, ignore all this.
     
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  18. boop

    boop Tele-Holic

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    "change a word, get a third"
     
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  19. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    Well, music is, above all else, a business. Pink Floyd's "Momentary Lapse of Reason" credits seven writers, six of which are not band members. "The Division Bell" had four, and three of which were not in the band.
     
  20. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I hear this. Only thing I doubt is Top 40. There is no way they could even grasp what vaporwave is or how to capitalize on it. It doesn't even matter lol.

    I guess that's why the empty shell of Top 10 sounds like the free library, music has been done to death. Industrialization, digitization, and algorithm/AI development has begun and will map out the rest. Even in that weird future, one can't have an edge without a central platform of mundane to contrast against.
     
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