Just what this forum needs--an(other) "Are UFO's real?" thread!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by RoscoeElegante, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'm actually not as excited to find out something like "we are being visited by beings from other worlds", if they are really primarily interested in learning what our military capabilities are.

    The old take me to your leader fantasy isn't working out.
    We keep reading insistent musings that no civilization would travel that far to chat.
    This makes a lot of sense, why do that?

    So why would they pose for pics at civilian social centers?
     
  2. chemobrain

    chemobrain Friend of Leo's

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    i HAVE SEEN THINGS IN THE SKY THAT i COULD NOT EXPLAIN, AND TO ME IT'S JUST STUFF IN THE SKY THAT i CAN NOT ExPLAIN AND DON'T UNDERSTAND whoops sorry for shouting.

    I take the position that I take with bears with cubs , leave them alone and lots of space .
    I am reading a piece from a university that talks about the assumptions of what types of life people assume that were present on earth.it's been redone several times, the last inclusion was not even recognized as exist until recently the unknown and ignored species has more variations, and exist in numbers far exceeded all other kinds of life. hmmmmm so much for assumptions based on the existing models,.... that last on just blew all previous"KNOWLEDGE" out of the water a whole body of scientific belief, proofs and mythology of an entire field are now on the junk pile of scientific facts, which is not to say that immunology, climate science, surgery dentistry are wrong but there is less known and understood about that which exists and how it works, than we are led to believe.
    If.... little green men exist , fine, I'm not creating a belief system or a systematic denial based upon our current body of information.
    repeat after me the earth is flat, if you sail to far from the shore you will fall off the earth, the sun circle the earth, thunder lightning volcanic eruptions earthquakes are all related to a variety of different gods that are pissed off
     
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'm sorry you felt like some of us were shaming (you?) for not "accepting these are alien spacecraft".
    I hope it wasn't my posts, and did NOT even mean to imply that I believe these are aliens.

    All I believe is that some of the stuff we have access to is not fake or hoax, and cannot be explained, thus is worthy of the scrutiny some give it.

    As far as shaming anyone for our/ their beliefs, you do agree that historically those who do believe in alien beings visiting earth are the ones subjected to intense shaming, right?

    I've never seen much in terms of shaming of "non believers" or "extraterrestrial deniers" (is that even a thing?), but we are maybe at a point where non believers can no longer shame witnesses who publicly admit to having seen aircraft far beyond known human tech.

    I only see one true believer in this thread, @Davecam48 , where the rest of us are more dismissive of arguments that claim it makes no sense for aliens to visit, or that if they did we would have proof, or if they were aliens they would have introduced themselves formally etc etc.

    It seems like we have one of those internet events, where if some of us admit some woo deserves a closer look, all the woo haters attack us for believing what they assume we believe, just because we are not as convinced as them that there is nothing on earth we cannot explain.

    So to reiterate; I do not assume these are extraterrestrial spacecraft!
    But what the hell are they?

    Claims that they are hallucinations or hoaxes just isn't cutting it any more.
     
  4. Wrighty

    Wrighty Tele-Afflicted

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    UFOs are like ghosts, really exist to those who see them. Everybody who has can’t be making it up, so, whether physically ‘there’ or buried deep in the mind of the beholder, no one can deny they exist. What they are is open to debate.
     
  5. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yeah I've seen some stuff up there, one in circa 1967 flying low and slow just above tree line while I waited alone for the school bus just after dawn.
    It was a long time in view, could have run in the house and gotten my mother to bring out a camera, but didn't. Really, I didn't believe it would still be there, or even that it was there.
    Told kids on the bus what I was and got all sorts of nutty responses.
    I do not believe it was an alien spacecraft.
    I don't even believe I saw anything at all, because it is just too strange to rationalize and categorize in my memory. I remember what it looked like and where it was though.

    Microscopic beings?
    Yeah I believe in them despite having owned several microscopes as a kid and never actually seeing any of those beings.
    Even tried to photograph live frog cells as a science project once in 4th grade.
    Borrowed a high school microscope and a camera adapter for it.
    Couldn't get a decent pic to save out lives.
    Pretty traumatic actually, killing the poor frog and cutting it up fresh.
     
  6. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    In some respects, maybe!

    The US Navy and Department of Defense are going on record and confirming the provenance of the incidents being reported through To The Stars Academy. Going back further, there are a number of ex-service people from the Cold War era who report UFOs appearing over nuclear sites and even shutting down weapons systems. There’s a surprising amount of declassified paperwork about military sightings. It could be that whoever or whatever they are, other nation or other planet, they’re buzzing military sites not civilian ones.

    Undoubtedly, there’s a lot of hoaxing, speculation, misidentification and wishful thinking out there. And the topic comes with the baggage of an accepted story that the Government know what these things are and are in on it. If they’ve just been watching them for years but are still clueless, and they’re rare, that’s not going to satisfy a lot of people but it would still be a very significant situation.
     
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  7. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    BTW, completely on the fence about aliens, but in the 90s, I saw a round aircraft maybe a few feet across with two very short square wings and a very short pointy tail. It was hovering over a city in the UK. I didn’t freak out or even stop the car because it looked so man-made, and I still presume it was. Aliens don’t need wings. :) But I’ve never found anything that matches that description in the 25 years since. I Have wondered if it was a surveillance drone test over a suburban area.

    There are some odd things flying about.
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Hmmm.
    Humanity demands satisfaction.
    What doesn't satisfy us, we dismiss offhand.
    Repeated dissatisfaction leads to mass dismissal of "a very significant situation".

    Great stuff.

    Alexa, order me something satisfactory.
     
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  9. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    :D

    And this is why the world won’t panic!

    If the powers that be are breaking alien visitation gently, it’s working... No one’s headed for the hills yet.
     
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  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Maybe those 40 foot windowless craft with no visible propulsion systems or wings are actually the latest Amazon fulfillment tech, searching for incorrect addresses?
     
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  11. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    Reading your posts I'm not sure if you're a sceptic or a believer.
     
  12. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    They are just things needing identification.

    Drones... hypersonic scramjets, next gen high speed UAVs.... plenty of highly likely candidates. The same conversation about the rate of development and risks with new aerial technologies is happening in the Navy and the RAF who I was with yesterday morning here. The CAA here is currently running a major consultation for new guidance and rules on drone licensing, as it’s just got completely out of hand now with kids flying toys onto airfields and warships. Interestingly zero mention has been made of anything ‘alien’ with any of these professional organisations.

    I would suggest that any standardised recording and categorising of ‘UFO’ incursions into sensitive airspace today is a part of establishing a methodology to track and respond to the recent rapid developments. The UFOs that are the target of investigation are just things that lack an identification.. that does not automatically have to make make them alien. Of course there is that possibility too.. but to even get to confirming that you have to sort out the obvious and less obvious from the far more fanciful in a formal way.

    China has been testing Mach 5+ aircraft for some years... Russians for longer. And that is just stuff they talk about publically. The Chinese have made even more advances in recent days and it would be highly unlikely that these craft, and even more performant secret versions thereof, have not been tested in live scenarios and been detected by enemy defence systems as ‘craft with capabilities exceeding known technology’.

    https://thedefensepost.com/2018/05/21/china-lingyun-1-hypersonic-missile-revealed/

    What is alarming, is the deep thirst and grasping for woo and how quickly a pretty obvious notice about doing a better job in recording and tracking these new strategic aerial threats to bases, ships and craft is suddenly:

    - science is broken
    - a psyop designed to take away civil freedoms by stealth
    - a secret state system is preparing humans for a major alien story
    - evidence of a giant scientific and military complex coverup
    - tubes were replaced by smaller, cheaper and more efficient silicon semiconductors because of aliens
    - we are incapable of innovation without external alien help
    - evidence that an alien civilisation ubered groups of humans to different parts of the world in prehistory
    - everything that Von Daniken made is true
    - aliens visitors in the past traveled in carts pulled by horses and wore headgear with earth creatures on.
    - aliens have one head, four limbs and are conveniently the size and shape of humans and conveniently travel in interstellar craft in our atmosphere at speeds just in advance of the contemporary earth aircraft that encounter them.. errrr... OK.

    It’s wild, speculative and extreme responses exactly like that, that is currently leading to a major global health crisis around vaccination with people ‘believing’ far more than they have evidence for.

    As to military personal going on YouTube and telling stories about a classified event - well that says everything you need to know about the reliability and trustworthiness of those individuals. Take anything they say with a grain of salt as they may not have been party to all the facts of an operation too.

    And there is no scientist that is not open to the idea of alien life.. This very day, there are a bunch of probes drilling and sampling any planet, moon or asteroid they can reach to look for signs of life. I would say that is incredibly open minded of them for being faithless, scientific ‘non-believers.’
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Maybe because your set of possibilities does not include what I am.
    Assuming a skeptic is convinced there are no extraterrestrial spacecraft, and a believer is convinced that these are all extraterrestrial spacecraft.

    I simply do not know, am curious, and consider some of the possible explanations to be less than good news.

    As much as the content of the story this specific thread is about, the fact that after 15 years we still have no public info on the actual tech involved, might be worth worrying about.

    Similar to @Guitarteach feeling that believing in possible alien visitors is connected to not getting kids inoculated, it seems like we cannot have a reasonable discussion about the unknown without anger or self righteous dismissiveness derailing rational discussion.

    As for the list of new tech by @Guitarteach , none explains the 15 year old tech we are discussing.

    And as for military personnel speaking out on classified info, I'd agree that it would be unpatriotic to release military secrets.
    But was this a US military secret test?
    Or was it an enemy military test?

    If not our soldiers releasing our military secrets, maybe they serve an elected gov that directs the military, and maybe that elected gov is higher than the military and responsible to the citizenry. Maybe the citizenry has higher rights than the military WRT unknown tech that may be a threat.
    IDK, sticky wicket.

    If we are to now condemn the soldiers who spoke out, leading to the Navy establishing new guidelines for such encounters, maybe we are anti govt, as much as anti soldier who speaks out. Or hell, maybe the soldiers who spoke out, did so at the recommendation of other military or govt officials.
    We don't know what we don't know yet we freely dismiss certain things that we don't know because we are locked into our assumption system.
     
  14. Erebus

    Erebus Tele-Meister

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    15 years of commercial flying and I’ve yet to see one... seen some odd things but all of which were explainable (eventually)
     
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  15. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    Quite. A man on YouTube saying something defies known laws of physics doesn’t mean that the observation was accurate. People are used to seeing planes making moves that keep their human pilots conscious. Who knows what military researchers have been doing with high-speed drones and automated piloting technology? But the fact they look that acrobatic is still intriguing.

    There appears to be some truth to these specific encounters, but I doubt we’ll ever get the real data the ship took, just eyewitness accounts and scant bits of confirmation. I need more, myself, and that’s just to believe these mystery craft can do what they’re rumoured to and that this tale is being told straight and Luis Elizondo is being genuine. But even if these are “just” mystery, super advanced drones playing chicken with other militaries (or branches of), that’s pretty amazing. If there’s some new propulsion tech out there... :eek:

    But wouldn’t aliens be great? It’s a romantic story to get hooked on, that’s for sure...
     
  16. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    There is a ‘conspiracy theory’ led world out there in which UFO discussions are just like part of some giant X Files episode.

    Then there is a huge science driven investigation involving many thousands of scientists and engineers actively looking for alien life, listening for their possible communications, locating distant planets that may support life as well as exploring our own solar system for signs of life with probes and spacecraft. Still not turned up much.

    You can believe in the possibility of extra terrestrials and engage in the search for them, without becoming some sucker for any crazy woo that comes along.
     
  17. Shuster

    Shuster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I used to see some wild stuff in the sky I couldn't splain away, but I quite doing mandrex, so now I only see boring stuff:(
     
  18. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    Did you see last month’s National Geographic with alien life as the cover story? We could image atmospheres of exoplanets and send probes to the nearest stars in a few years. The science is there. Life evolved from mush relatively early in Earth’s habitable existence. A lot of scientists now expect to find more life... Somewhere...

    Amazing stuff.
     
  19. RL52

    RL52 Tele-Meister

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    They are from Uranus.
    Explains all the probes stories.
     
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  20. Davecam48

    Davecam48 Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    When I was in my mid thirties I went to work for a man called Alan Brook who had a radio tv repair business. Alan had been a sergeant in the Australian Infantry Force and fought in New Guinea during WW2. A friend of his was also in Alan's unit in N.G. and after the war was an engineer for Qantas who flew all over the planet to repair or supervise repairs to the airline's ancillary equipment. He was also a camera buff who always traveled with his camera equipment which he used to file his reports on his work. One day when flying back back from an assignment he was told by a hostess that the Captain would like to see him and to bring his camera. He went up to the pointy end and the Captain showed him the view through the windscreen. Ahead and to one side there were about ( I can't remember just how many he said now) two or three disk like objects flying in formation. He of course took quite a few pictures and while there, the crew and himself suggested several slight changes in course and altitude etc. these alterations were simultaneously duplicated by the objects.

    The crew had to report the incident which they did by radio, and mentioned the fact that they had photographs of them as well.

    When they landed they were met by security people in civilian dress who confiscated his camera and film etc. and warned to not speak of the incident.

    This was told to me and a few others in the workshop by the man himself, and I have no reason to dis-believe his story.

    Considering the infinite number of other solar systems out there it is quite reasonable to expect that we are not the only sentient beings capable of leaving their planet. Don't forget that most of the stars we can see at night are suns, and most will have their own planetary systems, it is foolish to think that humans are the only ones.

    DC
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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