Just what this forum needs--an(other) "Are UFO's real?" thread!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by RoscoeElegante, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,900
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Location:
    In the South
    I have, thanks. Try Paul Dirac 'The Principles of Quantum Mechanics' for an entertaining read. It'll make your brain itch. :)

    Quantum theory is just that, a theory built on our understanding of a very peculiar subatomic world.

    What it isn't, is "strange thing in the sky, therefore aliens" stated as fact.
     
    John Nicholas likes this.
  2. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    your IP address has been logged, someone will be in touch with you shortly. pray it is not the Bezo, destroyer of worlds.
     
    telemnemonics and RoscoeElegante like this.
  3. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,584
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
    Bull's eye on the gall-strike!

    My sons are 15 and 13. I've never smacked 'em. A few ear pinches here and there when they were starting to hurt one another or chase balls into the street, but never any violence used/surrendered to in disciplining them. Great, easy kids, so not a big self-control achievement there.

    Even so, when, last week, I first heard my oldest son asking his phone, verbally--speaking to it--to tell him the time because he didn't want to move, I really wanted to skip that damn thing off his noggin. Luckily he caught my jaw-dropped Cro-Magnon glare, laughed, and said, "Wow--you are the dirt under the old school. I know, I know--get off your butt and look at a clock, and develop an internal sense of time. Says the man who makes us fetch him the remote control." The punk! Later today, among the papers I have to grade is one arguing that we're all "fools" not to devote most of our resources to colonizing Mars.

    I hope the aliens/earth-escapers DO leave me way behind. If it don't grow puppies, if baseball isn't in its genes, that new planet can....
    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44260/birches
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  4. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    schrodinger's cat, light is a paricle and a wave, energy is constantly bubbling in and out of the universe. a particle does not have a position until it is measured.. etc, etc. etc.

    no one really understands the quantum universe. science doesn't even understand gravity.

    science tries to explain by disregarding the woo and winds up creating its own woo to fill empty spaces between facts.

    the fact is we really don't know that much about the world, but science allows most people to not have to think about it.

    i'm not certain thats a good thing, but for most folks it works. Science is religion for athesist..and I'm not attacking religion, atheists or science. I'm just saying we all need something to beleive in even if its only e=mc2...

    I just find it hubris to beleive that everything has been explained and therefore "x" can't exist, because we have never seen "x".

    I say keep your powder dry and your eyes open, and try to stay out of the tabloids...
     
  5. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,648
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    And don't eat beef jerky in the woods.
     
    magicfingers99 likes this.
  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,681
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    My wife's parents are coming next week.
    We have no proof but believe they have been living alternately in CA and Ireland.
    They claim to fly back and forth between them while publishing books of poetry.
    We are terrified of the upcoming invasion.
    We have removed all evidence of our crazy nature lest poets imprison us in the verse.
     
    uriah1 likes this.
  7. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    your are a product of your biases. an intelligent species that could make it here might be more interested in the rocks than the humans and could care less what we are doing or not doing.

    you have been programmed to beleive certain things about our species and our behaviors, consider why you are being programmed rather than the content of the programming, if you really want to understand things.
     
  8. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,584
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
    Not sure how to get out of or get the best perspective on this loop, but it is true--demonstrably, usefully, repeatedly so--that science itself is what tells us that, how, and under what conditions science is guessing, unsure, speculating, floating a probability, facing a puzzle, tangled in a paradox. We could not logically, accurately, and responsibly say what we could or do not know if we were not USING the scientific method to do so.

    This is not to over-state science's abilities or to make it any kind of dogma.

    Nor is this to discount the importance of intuition, non- or semi-rational senses of beauty and value, etc.

    But because science is a set of procedures that have unique abilities to find, question, revise, and describe the limits of knowledge, it is a mistake to use the limitations of knowledge that science identifies to say that science is nearly useless, or merely self-confirming, or just another type of superstition. Not so.
     
  9. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,930
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    One man's woo is another man's woobarb. And never wub another man's woobarb.
     
    Matthias and magicfingers99 like this.
  10. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,584
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
    If you give me an old lakeside cabin in Maine, I will solve this and all other problems in your life. And immunize your phone from calls from Nigerian princes lost in Newark.
     
  11. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,930
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    That doesn't sound like science to me... that sounds more like imagination. Imagination is good though.
     
    John Nicholas likes this.
  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,681
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    What this thread is discussing is creators and users of the most advanced human tech observing other tech that they cannot attribute to any existing human tech.

    And more notably that these tech professionals are no longer ridiculing and firing those who admit to having observed with their eyes and their instruments, tech that they cannot identify.

    Not sure why you are suggesting the thread is making your above statement of fact?
    Again though, it is easier to ridicule the ridiculous than to address the unknown.
     
  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,681
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Now that you mention it, the former resident of this home kept getting calls from Jamaica years after she left this world.
    Woo!
     
  14. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    14,263
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Location:
    kamloops bc
    look its really simple ,
    The earth is a large terrarium, that is sitting on some etherial kids book shelf , or better yet some science class some where, first the teacher dropped in some sea monkeys he got off the back of some comic book a few million years ago , but that was boring so after a bunch of millenia , they emptied out the tank. The next generation had let the water evaporate and threw some plant seeds down and green stuff started to grow so some really bright kid decided that he would bring his toy dinosaurs from home and that lasted for a few semesters of interest , but no real intellegence here, so one really smart ass kid thew a big rock into the tank and destroyed it.
    Time to rebuild for next semester, this time only 70% water and 30 % rock and dirt some of the plants survived and they threw in ants Black, Red and Fire in there this time there to watch them fight to see which one wins , but after the ants stopped fighting each other they learned that if they shared their talents together they could escape the terrarrium by climbing up the walls and out and if they cocooned them selves as they traveled they could get to the other terrarriums on the shelf .

    Na, I playin wit ya, I just made that up:D:D:D:D
     
  15. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    i think of it as the same way as Churchill thought of Americans' "they'll always do the right thing after they've tried every alternative"
    or something to that effect.

    in my lifetime I've seen many ironclad notion sink to the bottom only after the elders of the church have passed this mortal coil. Science is strong, but prejudice and glory are stronger.

    look at plate tectonics and how the man that discovered it was destroyed for thinking outside the box (or the meritocracy)

    science is human art and subject to all the shortcomings of man himself. to raise it upon a platform to be worshipped is folly.

    Science has been bent to mostly weapon creation and surviellance, only the serfs of science labor, at trying to understand the world, most are bent on destroying parts of it.
     
  16. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    tell them you've become Amway representives and try to sell them the entire product line. the visit will likely be shortened....
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  17. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,584
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
    magicfingers99: "i think of it as the same way as Churchill thought of Americans' 'they'll always do the right thing after they've tried every alternative' or something to that effect."

    Well, 'twas a mite glib of the (generally) great man, given how we saved his country, and Western Europe, and our generals often had much wiser ideas than he did about where and when and how to invade, etc. And if this were so true about science, how do you account for science's proven predictive powers--of cause-and-effect relationships, of force X applied to materials Y with A-D variables of force/means will = Z result with E degree of (objectively affirmable) certainty? If you're gonna fault science for not being accurate enough, and you prove your accusations accurate, you're USING science. (An apt parallel, in fact, is how often and emotionally Churchill looked to America to save Western Civilization. He knew it would get the job done. As does science, when done right, especially for its self-critiquing, self-correcting processes.)​

    in my lifetime I've seen many ironclad notion sink to the bottom only after the elders of the church have passed this mortal coil.
    Isn't it logic that tells us this? And isn't science logic at self-corrective work? Codified logic--made so to minimize the warp of dogma, wish, etc.?​

    Science is strong, but prejudice and glory are stronger.
    Always? For everyone? If that were the case, how could you even know this? Why bother pointing it out? And how could science have re-thought Newton, Einstein, itself, over and over, daily, inherently? And just because noxious things may be stronger than benevolent or logical things, why does that make science...not science?​

    look at plate tectonics and how the man that discovered it was destroyed for thinking outside the box (or the meritocracy)
    And look at how SCIENCE confirmed his theories right, his interpretations of data right, etc.​

    science is human art
    Sure. But humans can be pretty durn good at logic, yes? After all, you're presuming to use logic to make lots of absolute-truth claims. We all do so. Even saying "Truth is relative" is a claim of absolute fact. But science is a demonstrably effective set of methods to maximize our apprehension of fact, truth, pattern, and possibility, by minimizing the damage that prejudice, bias, etc., can do to thinking.​

    and subject to all the shortcomings of man himself.
    When science fails to be science, it slips into wish, prejudice, bias, etc. Smearing science with the same brush that you use to criticize dogmatism, fanaticism, tribalism, superstition, etc., is recklessly over-generalizing, demonstrably inaccurate, and a self-defeating attempt to use logic to say that logic can't recognize illogic.​

    to raise it upon a platform to be worshipped is folly.
    Sure. As noted, repeatedly, any dogmatism is dangerous morally, socially, procedurally, etc. But recognizing science's unique inherency of self-critique and self-correction is hardly to put it on a platform. Science can get off the tracks--but science, that is, humans doing science right, is what sees and corrects that.​

    Science has been bent to mostly weapon creation and surviellance,
    Well, no. But replying factually would bring us into something too much involving politics for the Forum to permit. Suffice to say, as of this moment, one of my kids is in (minor) surgery--surgery that might have killed her 60 years ago. But science has progressed to the point where her dying of this surgery is very, very unlikely. However much science fosters weaponry and surveillance, it sure as hell fosters lots and lots and lots of life-saving and life-serving knowledge, tools, medicines, and means. Without evidence, found and affirmed scientifically, no one can say 51% or more of science is devoted to weaponry & surveillance. And since she's in a city 600 miles from me, a scientific product--many of them; thousands of years of them--will be used to tell me how she's doing in, hopefully, a half-hour's time.​

    only the serfs of science labor, at trying to understand the world,
    That same kid of mine getting surgery right now just finished nursing school, and is going on to med school, to help sick kids heal and healthy kids stay healthy. That's just one example among many hundreds millions, maybe billions, of people using science for human and planetary good. Serf? Why such sneering at strangers whom you can easily see do a lot of live-saving, life-serving work because they want to, because their curiosity and benevolence and love of precision guide them, and combine? Less voodoo in your woo-doo, please?​

    most are bent on destroying parts of it.
    As of this moment, I'm in a classroom of engineering students working on group quizzes. Most of them will work in industry and labs trying to find ways to do less harm to the planet, to help the planet heal. Now, again, you really want to damn people this way whom you don't know in ways that science/logic could correct? Isn't that...prejudice? Fixed by...logic? The same logic that, codified, is science?​
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  18. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    actually the russians were beating the germans, and suffered dearly for it. don't beleive everything you are taught.. Because you beleive a thing doesn't make it so, and so conversely. The art of prose is expressing yourself succintly.
     
  19. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,376
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    they call em "theories" but imagination is a valid element of all supposition.
     
  20. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,930
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    I think a key distinction here that a scientist might make (if I am not being to presumptuous I hope) is that the imagination part - the filling in and connecting of facts - is the hypothesis, while the theory part happens much later, after the hypothesis has been tested and the data and evidence has been shared.

    I've never heard of a scientist conflating a scientific theory with a supposition, even though many people do casually equate the two in conversation.
     
    John Nicholas likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.