Jointing w/o a jointer...

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by goodchicken, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. peterg

    peterg Tele-Meister

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    Another helpful Paul Sellers video.

     
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  2. Addnine

    Addnine Tele-Holic

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    I vaguely remember a table saw blade with abrasives on the side which would allegedly cut and sand yr cut simultaneously.

    Anyway, I would say a blade with a lot of teeth would work ok, depending on the sort of perfection you have in mind. (I know, I know: but in the real world there actually are "degrees of perfection," one man's perfection being another man's botch job.)

    You could always take the Chinese approach and glue a photo of AAA figured maple on there. That's how they did my beloved Grote.
     
  3. Winky

    Winky Tele-Meister

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    I've not done it, but a technique I saw described was to get the two edges as straight and square as you can with your table saw, then clamp them in what would be the final position. Then take another cut along the join centreline using a router, full depth narrow straight bit and a straight edge. The two pieces will then fit perfectly, even though they may not be exactly straight and square.
     
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  4. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    To edge-joint on the table saw, you ideally need to have actual flat material and preferably use a carrier sled running securely in the miter slot with the material clamped down to the sled. That removes the inconsistencies that invariably come from running material along the fence. Having actual flat materia at least on one side is important because by definition, edge jointing is to get the edge perpendicular to the face. Of course, that means face jointing. If you don't have a jointer, you can flatten material using a planer if you have it using again, a sled as a carrier that you can shim the material to be stable, shave off the face toward the cutterhead to flatness and then run it with the flattened face on the planer bed to make the other side parallel.
     
  5. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Abrasives on a table saw blade are going to burn really fast because of the RPM. A larger tooth count is also not the best for ripping material...inefficient and causes burning in many wood species. "Glue line rip blades" are typically a mid- to lower-count tooth setup with an ATB-R setup. The R stands for raker and is a tooth that is perpendicular to the cut line to efficiently remove material from the kerf. The biggest challenge for getting a good glue surface off the table saw, aside from the flatness I mentioned in my other reply to this thread, is elminimating lateral movement and inconsistent feed speed from one's hands.
     
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  6. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    True dat. I tried using my table saw as a sanding disk, it builds up heat almost instantly. If you are not familiar with Forrest saw blades, they're head and shoulders better than any others I've ever seen. (no affiliation) You can send in any circular blades for them to sharpen; they come back surprisingly better than they were when they were new. Makes everything easier.

    https://www.forrestblades.com/
     
  7. Telemaestro

    Telemaestro Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    One thing about setting up the table saw is cut one of your pieces face up, and the other face down. Any small angularity issue will be canceled out when the boards come together. I have in the past established a straight edge by double side taping my 24” straight edge to the opposite edge of the board from what I am cutting, and riding that along the fence. If you double stick tape it (I prefer a brand called spec tape) to the top of your piece you don’t have to worry about blocking up the piece off the bed of the saw.
     
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  8. Addnine

    Addnine Tele-Holic

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    Yeah, I was referring to gimmick I saw thirty years ago in some catalog, one which obviously didn't catch on and so probably didn't work. It was a circ blade with abrasive glued/brazed(?) to the sides of the blade.

    I know about the sharpening angle on rip teeth, 90-degrees: used to hand sharpen my hand saws, and I know rip blades generally have fewer tpi, but there is no denying you'd get a smoother rip cut using a rip blade with higher tpi as opposed to lower, though obviously that will be a lower tpi than an equivalent crosscut blade.

    I've been rebuilding our porch and have been doing all my
    rip cuts with a 60-tooth finish blade (plain ol' DeWalt, 7 1/4" Makita circular saw.). To my surprise it's been working great, cuts right through, no burning, really smooth. (1x lumber, so...) Shouldn't work, maybe, but it does. Some of the cuts were around 8 feet. On a couple cuts, I tapped a little shingle shim in the end of the cut to keep the kerf open. Probably helps it was all just pine or fir.

    The answer really, of course, is to get yourself to a jointer. There will be no invisible glue lines on the new porch, after all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  9. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The likelihood of you making the face joint worse with a hand tool is high unless you are very experienced. I have made many great glue joints with just a table saw. You need to get the blade and table perfectly 90 degrees. Do this with the blade full up and cut slow at a rate the blade likes... you can feel it. I have done this with Teak many many times building boats.
    Flipping the board is a good idea too.
     
  10. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I use Forrest blades exclusively and have since the early 2000s. I buy from Silver's Mill, however, rather than direct...much better pricing....when I actually need a replacement. But they are really good for quite a few quality resharpenings, too.
     
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  11. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Afflicted

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    Or clamp the boards together. Joint. Flip down and glue opposite sides. You have to flip one piece before jointing if you're bookmatching so that the opposing angles give you the matchup
    You want.

    Some guys intentionally put a miniscule angle on boards so that the top edges meet a hair before the bottom when glued.
     
  12. natec

    natec Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    This is what works well for me. I have a decent table saw (sawstop), and use a higher end blade.

    Can't see the seam under nitro.
     
  13. Telemaestro

    Telemaestro Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Mike Farrington shows and I believe sells some double angle sanding disk for the table saw. Looks intriguing when I’ve seen him use it in his videos.
     
  14. goodchicken

    goodchicken TDPRI Member

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    1st attempt on the table saw was ok...for a painted body. Got a very tiny glue line. The blade seemed set up perfectly 90 degrees with a small machinist's level. I did very minimal block sanding afterwards.

    I did not flip one of the body pieces (this is a 2 piece body). In other words, I was looking at the top of the blank while jointing both pieces, but apparently I should try one piece facing up and the other facing down?

    Will redo.
     
  15. adjason

    adjason Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I have a jointer but usually a table saw and then I like to use a long flat piece of sandpaper on a flat surface (like your table saw top) to sand the pieces a bit-using the fence or something to keep the boards 90 degrees. -that should work ok. the idea of using a straight piece of material as a guide and using a router might work well too
     
  16. UjwalB

    UjwalB TDPRI Member

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    Has anybody used a track saw for this purpose? I see a lot of people using table saw and even routers to joint but haven't see any luthier use a track saw.

    I believe it would work just as well as a table saw.

    I would love to see anybody is using track saw as I am also seriously considering getting one as table saw is not an option for me due to limited space. Moreover track saw is a lot safer as the blade is completely hidden and has great dust collection.
     
  17. Telemaestro

    Telemaestro Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Track saws are great, and the larger ones are perfectly capable with a rip blade of cutting a nice cut for a body blank. I would still dress it with a hand plane or sandpaper before gluing, but I’m anal like that. I edged 1 3/4” thick x 7’ long hickory with a track saw for a dining table that I built. Also edge all of the white oak for the trim in my addition with one.
     
  18. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Yes, but preferably cutting them simultaneously, one on top of the other, if at all possible. That kind of flipping is also commonly done when edge jointing on an actual jointer for the same reason...to insure complementary angles.
     
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  19. Mojotron

    Mojotron Poster Extraordinaire

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    Jointing without a jointer is not tough at all to get as good or equal results. It's as easy as getting a ~30x5 inch piece/remnant of quartz/stone counter top - check the flatness with a level or fret-leveling bar...
    IMG_1551.jpg

    Then, cut the wood on a table saw, sand it flat with 220 grit paper on the counter-top remnant do some test fits and glue it up.

    Zero line...
    IMG_1566.jpg

    I've tried to do this with a router+table as well as using a super fine table saw blade - that worked OK. I do have a great jointer as of about 4 years ago, but I still do it this way for projects I want to be quick and easy. There is nothing to this method - just being careful.
     
  20. P Bill

    P Bill Tele-Meister

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    I'm in the hand planed joint camp because it's direct, quick and quiet. Sellers grips his plane as low as he can to avoid the metal plane's high centre of gravity wobble. I use these Hong Kong planes, set fine and finer, for joining bodies and necks and for furniture surface decoration if the timber suits being sheared. DSC06756.JPG
    DSC06760.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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