Jointing two bits of wood

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Laren, May 25, 2021.

  1. Laren

    Laren Tele-Meister

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    Thanks for all the replies guys. Just practice I reckon plus tightening up in all the sections eg making sure the plane blades sharp etc. I'm sure I'll get there.
    Many thanks.
     
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  2. oldunc

    oldunc Tele-Holic

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    It sort of depends which of your tools are dependable. I've used a tablesaw a lot, either by attaching a board with a straight edge to my workpiece and registering it against the fence, or by gluing the two pieces up and cutting through the joint line; this takes care of both boards, but requires some care; if the piece twists at all against the blade the cuts won't match up. Actually I can usually joint right off the tablesaw; featherboards can be very helpful.
    The right kind of clamps can help too- clamps designed for jointing will align the two pieces vertically as well as clamping horizontally. This can be very important, particularly on thinner pieces.
     
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  3. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I haven't seen anyone mention the table saw method. For edge-glueing two thin boards, like a book-matched guitar top. If you have a decent table saw, this works fine. Place the two pieces side by side, just like you want them to be glued. Next, flip one over, the long way, so the same edge is touching, but one side is upside-down. Next, fold them together like a book, and run them through the table saw together; just trim off about the width of the saw blade, off the edges to be glued together. When you open the "book" and re-flip one side, the two edges should be nice and straight, and any slight variation from a 90 degree angle on the saw blade will cancel out and the boards should glue up nice and flat. Good luck!

    EDIT: Oldunc beat me to it!
     
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  4. steeUK

    steeUK TDPRI Member

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    Coming from a rank amateur, so take it for what it's worth but I had success joining 2 pieces for a neck and additional pieces as wings for the headstock using the pattern cutter run along a straight edge method.

    I used double sided tape to avoid issues moving clamps around. The budget Diall stuff they sell in B&Q seems to strike the right balance of holding it secure but not being completely impossible to prise apart afterwards.
     
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  5. oldunc

    oldunc Tele-Holic

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    No, that's a pretty common method, using either a pattern or flush cut bit. You could also use a template guide with a straight bit, or if you have a router table the fence. The bigger the bit diameter the better.
     
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  6. peterg

    peterg Tele-Meister

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    I was going to post Paul Sellers’ video but darkforce already did so. Notice how Mr. Sellers holds the plane - it’s not a death grip. Keep in mind he’s been woodworking for 50 years or so and even he needed a few attempts to level the boards.
     
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  7. guitarscc

    guitarscc NEW MEMBER!

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    Went thru the same thing with my Cutech jointer - thought it'd be the 'answer' but LSS, found out that .009 was Cutechs acceptable tolerance for the aluminum tables(had great customer service getting to that point as the 1st 1 was outside of that(note: from 1st distributer whos now selling some other brand) which is ok for larger/wider pieces but not for thinner/shorter ones. Lots of good methods (as many have mentioned) for jointing and all involve a straight/true/flat surface. I use a metal square tube that I 'trued' on a flat surface as a straight template for my router table but found out that even though I've 'stepped up' to a cast iron table with a Triton router, it leans 1-2 degrees(not a perfect 90-degrees) so I either have to 'book' the pieces I'm jointing, or flip/reverse 1 if doing it individually and follow a similar path across the bit. I will someday try to 'true' the jointer tables on a flat sanding surface, assuming there's enough material to do so.
     
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  8. dunehunter

    dunehunter Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

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    I like these kinds of posts so I read through the whole thing and, in the end, I'm still not sure what sort of problems you're encountering. Is there a gap at the center of your joint? Are there gaps at the ends of your boards? Are your boards not meeting at a 90 degree angle (main surface wouldn't be flat)...?
    What sort of problem are you running in to?

    It's wonderful to have a dozen ways to joint a board but I would think that your jointer--no matter how crappy--should do the job. Just need to know what problem needs to be solved. A couple of notes:

    1. A "rub" joint is a skill you should really try to master if you want to do woodworking. Next to initial lumber square-up and flatten, it is a fundamental skill and worth taking the time to acquire.

    2. The rub joint while conceptually easy, is actually a difficult skill to master but, in the end, unlocks your potential for doing all sorts of other things.

    3. Even for the experienced, the rub joint between book=matched soundboard or back pieces on an acoustic guitar--as thin as these are--can be an exercise in tail chasing.

    4. Using a router as a jointer will work--as will a good, well-tuned hand plane. However, these are usually cost-saving and hand-tool junky solutions, respectively. Again, let's focus on your jointer: what is the problem you're encountering?

    Here's another question: what is the thickness of the boards you are trying to joint?

    Breathe in, breathe out...;)
     
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  9. Laren

    Laren Tele-Meister

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    Got it close enough to go for glue up :) It's not an invisible joint by any means as the two bits of wood aren't matched but I still think it will make a nice top.

    IMG_20210527_164616.jpg
     
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  10. fathand

    fathand TDPRI Member

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    I do similar to this but no clamps. Router in a router table with either a pattern bit or a flush cut bit.

    Get a piece of MDF about 6" wide with the factory straight edge one side.

    Double stick tape the factory edge about 1/16" inside of the edge you want to join.

    Run the wood against the bit with the bearing following the MDF edge.
     
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  11. Brek01

    Brek01 TDPRI Member

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    i am another that struggled to joint, i don't own a jointer. i eventually sussed it with the router, but i only use a straight edge on one side of the two pieces. you use the rounded edge of the router as the contact point, not the flat edge (that is a stability aid when tightening the bit). pic is of my fist successful joint. joint is perfect, i am so pleased with myself lol. 61BBA684-26E1-445A-9E4A-DB3896E949A8.jpeg
     
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  12. RickyRicardo

    RickyRicardo Friend of Leo's

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    For tops I do the old school method. Works great. Check this out at about 6:10.
     
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  13. enorbet2

    enorbet2 TDPRI Member

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    I should first mention that I own several many decades old (some , hundreds of years) old planes, saws, braces, etc. and generally prefer hand tools for most work on electric guitars BUT when I must join two planks end-to-end I resort to the "new fangled" and use a "biscuit" machine with hardwood "biscuits". They make alignment trivial and no amount of clamp tightening will cause any slippage. More importantly, it substantial increases glued surface area as well as acts in more than one plane.

    Originally I bought a used Makita for around $100 USD. I still have it but a few years later I bought a Ryobi new because I prefer the grip and the Makita only gets occasional usage..
     
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  14. Laren

    Laren Tele-Meister

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    Must be all the positive feedback from you guys. I seemed to get it straight from the jointer looking OK today. Sapele bottom, purple sycamore top and something I saw in LIDLs today which made me laugh,

    IMG_20210528_163142.jpg IMG_20210528_145527.jpg IMG_20210528_102747.jpg
     
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  15. dunehunter

    dunehunter Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

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    Is this 3/4" pine"? Like, from Home Depot? If "yes", one of your problems is that this wood is probably "moving" as you work and is unlikely properly "seasoned". In addition, these pieces you've selected are some nasty, twisted stock (though pretty) that may give you nothing but trouble; for example, the difference in hardness between knot wood and "normal" is pretty extreme.

    I can see your gaps (and if I can see them, it's going to be a weak joint). Try changing to a more uniform wood like maple or mahogany or walnut (yeah, they're more expensive, but...)

    Just my $0.02. Have fun!
     
  16. Laren

    Laren Tele-Meister

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    Sycamore. I know it was a bugger to work with. Still I reckon it'll look good.
     
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  17. oldunc

    oldunc Tele-Holic

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    I usually don't think much of Ryobi tools, but I loved their "mini" jointer; unfortunately they dropped it years back; I'm still hoarding a few of the mini biscuits. My full sized DeWalt biscuit jointer has a problem of the fence not aligning exactly with the blade- I often contemplated blowing the big bucks for a Lamello, but never did it; the problem can usually be worked around, but these machines need to be really precise.
     
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  18. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Years ago I bought a Porter Cable biscuit joiner...it sucked. Like a lot of new Delta/P-C stuff, it was inaccurate. I gave it away. One doesn't really need biscuits to build guitars anyway although maybe if I was doing a neck through firebird, I'd go to the trouble and make a couple grooves and use some splines on it to get the wings in the right place.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  19. jasperthecat

    jasperthecat TDPRI Member

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    One of my long time passions and a great source of relaxation over the years has been to construct reproduction pieces of antique furniture using traditional tools and construction methods appropriate for the period. Board-joints are quite commonplace in the pieces I construct.

    One really doesn't need a jointer or any power tools to actually construct a jointed board guitar body. The only tools required to create the body from jointed boards are an accurate carpenter's or engineer's square, a decent plane with a sharp and well honed blade and an accurate straight edge. My straightedge is 48" long and very accurate. Some kind of drill would also be required if joint reinforcement doweling is used but generally the tools are very basic.
    These days, due to ill health I actually do have a modest DIY jointer in my workshop for rough work but for anything remotely serious I certainly wouldn't rely upon that to get my board edges perfectly straight to my own working standards. I'd still dress the board edges with a plane and use a good quality straight edge and square to check how accurate my joint faces were before gluing.

    With care, those three basic tools are all one needs to accurately dress the board facing edges ready for gluing.
    It doesn't need biscuit jointers or anything like that but I would use wood dowels to strengthen the bond between the board faces during gluing.

    A very cheap and basic dowelling kit consists of a set of flanged 'nipples' (called dowel centre points) which are inserted into holes previously drilled in the center of one of the board edges. The boards are then brought together on a flat surface and the 'nipple' transfers the location position of the holes on the opposite board's face which can then be drilled and dowels inserted to strengthen the bond. With the appropriate glue and dowels, the job should be fine. Below is an example of dowel centre points.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141186200521?hash=item20df5a73c9:g:dkAAAOxy63FS88aH

    One of the traditional ways of marking boards this way was just using a panel pin knocked so far in on one board and then the other board face brought to it so that the opposing face will be marked. The pin can then be removed and the holes for the dowels carefully drilled ready for gluing the boards together.

    Of course it helps if one has a decent workbench and vice and clamps for gluing but not everyone has these or can afford them so it can be done with basic tools and a bit inventiveness to overcome a problem.
    Another useful traditional tool is a set of winding sticks. Look them up on Youtube. Their use is self-explanatory and they cost virtually nothing to make but incredibly useful. I made myself a set over 50 years ago and I still use them today.
    If there are any twists in the timber to be used it will make for very difficult jointing of mating faces so a set of winding sticks and appropriate planing are very useful when it comes to jointing boards.

    If one is going to make a guitar body from jointed material then then it's essential that the joints are as near perfect as possible in order to minimise unappealing aesthetics. Time spent on getting the joints as near perfect as possible will be rewarded later that's for sure.
     
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  20. sabot

    sabot TDPRI Member

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    I don’t have a jointer but a Kreg tabletop router table tries hard. Their fence is made of extruded aluminium and has a system where a couple of plastic rods slide out from behind the post-cut left fence face and when inserted into other channels behind the left fence face, bring it proud by 1/32 or 1/64 inch. With the post-cut side supported you then need to get the cut right so that the almost-flat surface passes along the right side of the fence, then the bit removes a small amount of material and the cut is then supported by the left side of the fence. It’s only for widths as big as your router can handle but it is very accurate if set up right.
     
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