Job opportunity to repair valve amps

[Worrywort]

Hello. the local amp repair man has recently moved abroad and I missed him.
I wanted to finish decorating the house and other job before asking him if he would like a glamorous assistant.
I'm wondering how much to charge for undertaking such work. Those who do, is it an hourly rate or a flat charge for each
task? I realise I'm going to get the occasional one that takes a few hours to fix.

 

[corliss1]

Hourly rate, plus parts.

It's often tricky to provide exact estimates on amp repair, and I always use the car example - I can take a tire off and look at brakes and say "yes, you need brakes" in about 5 minutes. But I can't SEE electricity. You basically have to fix the amp in order to know you've fixed it.

But, you get good at guessing and I usually provide a range. "Oh, it's two hours labor, plus parts, so we're gonna be between $160-220, and if it needs tubes that's on top of that." I also always shoot toward the high side as I'd rather have people be pleasantly surprised we're toward the low end than upset it's at or over my estimate.

Unless there's massive surgery, it's rare to have more than 2 hours into most guitar amps. Mesas can be an exception to that rule.

 

[Milspec]

My guy has always been an hourly charge and unlike mechanics who have a guide telling them how long it should take to repair, I don't think the Amp guys have such a resource. I think the rate should match the education / experience of the tech since that is most of why you pay a guy to facilitate the repairs. My guy retired after 35 years with Fender and does incredible work (especially on Fender amps) so he can charge pretty much what-ever he thinks is fair and nobody complains.

 

[Jon Snell]

Be aware that to repair electrical equipment, a certain standard must be met. Otherwise trading standards will be with you and do their best to stop you from working on equipment that must be deemed safe before leaving the shop. One injury to a customer and that will be hard to explain why as the last person to work on equipment is always to blame.
A qualification in PAT testing is a useful tool.
At least 4 years at a technical college to attain the qualifications required before you have access to third part insurance is just one side of the requirement. A sound knowledge in electronics from germainium transistors through valves and into digital is another requirement for a decent and trusted engineer.
A few certificates help with awkward customers questions.

 

[Worrywort]

Thank you for your replies.
Jon. PAT testing is an interesting one. I have access to one but what do I tell the customer if it fails? I would test it before and afterwards. I did an Apprenticeship years ago which covered solid state and amazingly it included valves. this was shortly before Microchips infested everything. I was intending to focus on valve equipment specifically.

 

[Dacious]

Thank you for your replies.
Jon. PAT testing is an interesting one. I have access to one but what do I tell the customer if it fails? I would test it before and afterwards. I did an Apprenticeship years ago which covered solid state and amazingly it included valves. this was shortly before Microchips infested everything. I was intending to focus on valve equipment specifically.

Problem is unless you specialise in pre-80s amps you'll find IC chips doing switching and gain and starting to infiltrate other functions like effects loop buffers and reverb/tremolo. These of course don't use critical high voltage circuits but solving something like channel bleed on a split channel reverb Marshall can be interesting. It took an EE to solve this issue on a 4210 I owned. Turned out to be dud transistors - even new ones.

I'd be charging by the hour.

 

[Peegoo]

It's generally starts with a flat-rate bench charge to assess and diagnose, followed by an estimate (time and materials). If the customer decides to press forward with the work, the bench charge is deducted from the amount of the estimate.

 

[BrownBlackSilver]

I think you also need a protocol for when - through your own idiocy/bias/blind-spot - you fail to spot a problem and instead spend hours going on a wild goose chase. Because you missed or didn't check something obvious. Charging your client for that is a bit cheeky, although we all know it's what other techs (cars, HVAC, electricians, etc) usually do.

 

[VintageSG]

My combined was taken in microelectronics and higher maths. We covered a little valve theory even then, as it was used to relate to FETs. Ah, happy days. Embedded controllers have come a long way since. My interest in them hasn't.

Aside from 'old man reminisces', be very aware that someone who has a £250 lunchbox head doesn't want to spend, well, anything, to get it repaired. Get the bench fee first.
Someone with a valve hi-fi that costs as much to run as a Tesla just wants their baby back.
And all points in-between.

I make a little pin money, and get to play about with amps, by buying non working amps from ebay and fixing them up to flip. Some don't get flipped, which is a problem. Retirement and immobility would suck more without though.

It'll give you an idea of what you're facing.

You need to look at liability insurance, business from home insurance and local authority compliance requirements too. A PAT machine and certificate are easy to obtain.

 

[Uncle Daddy]

The work is there, if you're up to it. My local tech is one of the only ones in Essex, and you can wait weeks for repairs. I think they tend to prioritise touring musicians, so I only really give them jobs to do that I can't, not having a variac or scope (not that I'd know what to do with them!)

 

[JIMMY JAZZMAN]

As Forrest used to say: Each amp is like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're going to get.
I'm sure by the hour would be the logical approach.

 

[Engine Swap]

 

[wabashslim]

I would say... "If you have to ask - YOU'RE NOT READY!"

 

[Jasonpatrick]

Don’t undersell yourself on projects. If it’s gonna take some work, let them know and have them sign paperwork so you don’t get screwed. Have a 30 day hold limit and after that time you can sell the amp to recoup costs. Many many places need a percentage down when the amp is dropped off. Go over it find the problem and let them know what it will cost to fix and a time frame. Don’t take on something that’s gonna take forever and end up costing you in the end. Communication is key.

 

[Jon Snell]

PAT testing is interesting. All electronic and sensitive equipment must not be flash tested for obvious reasons.
I use the Class 2 test, check leads, check fuse, check cabinet condition, check overall condition, power on test and record power drawn then if all is good run a leakage test and record. If leakage is higher that 22M Ohms with a 400v supply, it passes.
Otherwise fail the item and find out why. A 'Death cap' will cause a failure whether it is good or not due to the misbalance return to the PAT tester.
I use a calibrated Seaward Apollo 500+ and a Seaward Supanova as the workshop machine. All tests come with a cerificate of compliance when passed or a sticker stating Do Not Use, if failed and not repaired.

In the UK if a repair is not collected, good practice is to write to the customer stating intention to sell the product if it is not collected within 90 days.
Legally, if it is sold, any excess money, (more than the repair cost), is the property of the owner, not the seller, and must be returned with proof of sale.

 

[CoolBlueGlow]

Jon says, "Legally, if it is sold, any excess money, (more than the repair cost), is the property of the owner, not the seller, and must be returned with proof of sale."

That is a very loving and compassionate response!

I can see it now... "Yes, I sold your beloved 1972 Marshall Lead/Bass head for 200 quid to cover my bill. Here's your overage...which amounted to 11 pounds."