JJ's or Tung sol

[alnicopu]

So I'm diddling with my SF princeton reverb last night at the office looking to make it a little cleaner above 3/12. Settled on the 5ar4, plates at 430v and the bias at around 19-20ma. now. Started changing V1, 12ax7, ay7, au7 to see what I could come up with, didn't have a 5751 so couldn't try that. Then I stuck a JJ ECC803s in there and the clarity was much better, although still not quite as clean as I was wanting, but did seem somewhat louder when it was clean.

I've already settled on a couple different speakers (thanks to everyones very valuable input on my last post). I'm thinking now of a total retube and have read good stuff about jj and tung sol for new production tubes. I wanted to go with new production tubes as much as for a baseline in comparing NOS stuff. I'm currently using a chinese 5ar4, jj803s V1, baldwin/sylvania 12ax7s everywhere else, and an EH 12at7.

Is there that much difference in the jj ecc83 vs the 803s? Will I get a chimeyer tone with the jjs or the tung sols? I know this is all very subjective but I'm looking for fendery cleans with some good, bluesey crunch at overdriven volumes. Please give me some opinions here before I drop my cash.

Thanks much

 

[telex76]

Getting that chinese 5AR4 out of there will help as much as anything

 

[robt57]

Tung Sol RI pre amp, and JJ Power tube would be my suggestion, unless you got and can justify NOS for some black plate 6V6s... JJ's probably get it to cut a bit more I think...

 

[slider313]

Get rid of the EH 12at7 and look for a GE 12at7wa/6201. Sylvania 12xa7's are usually a bit higher in gain than most. The new Tung Sol 12ax7 robt57 mentioned is a good idea. RCA 12ax7's are hard to beat for clarity and warmth but are quite expensive these days. The JJ 6V6's will give you the most headroom compared to any other new production tube or NOS.

 

[alnicopu]

How is the jj 5ar4 or should I go with an NOS 5v4 (they seem cheaper and I don't want to break the bank).

 

[robt57]

How is the jj 5ar4 or should I go with an NOS 5v4 (they seem cheaper and I don't want to break the bank).

Get a few different, and also maybe a copper cap, keep in there what sounds best to you. But the TungSol will probably be more noticeable, smoother and maybe warm, the JJ probably brighter, but shriller and less musical to my ears. I would not consider that chime FWIW.

The copper cap, depending on the one your choose or can choose can have less sag and perhaps give you perceived bit of headroom just in response.

 

[alnicopu]

Get a few different, and also maybe a copper cap, keep in there what sounds best to you. But the TungSol will probably be more noticeable, smoother and maybe warm, the JJ probably brighter, but shriller and less musical to my ears. I would not consider that chime FWIW.

The copper cap, depending on the one your choose or can choose can have less sag and perhaps give you perceived bit of headroom just in response.

I checked a few sites and can't seem to find a tung sol 5ar4/gz34, do they even make (brand) one?

 

[slider313]

The NOS 5V4 is a good choice, but it will lower your B+ by 8v-10v, which will also drop the current draw on your 6V6's. Does your model year call for the 5AR4 or 5U4?

How about speaker choices? A more efficent speaker with a larger magnet will get you more clean headroom. Are you running the original speaker?

 

[robt57]

I checked a few sites and can't seem to find a tung sol 5ar4/gz34, do they even make (brand) one?

Sorry, I meant using the TungSol preamp tube. I'd use a copper cap if you are looking for headroom.


Did Weber ever come out with the bridge option on the copper caps to dial in sag is the question ?? I could be wording that wrong, knowing little about rectifiers than sag in the circuit etc.

 

[alnicopu]

The NOS 5V4 is a good choice, but it will lower your B+ by 8v-10v, which will also drop the current draw on your 6V6's. Does your model year call for the 5AR4 or 5U4?

How about speaker choices? A more efficent speaker with a larger magnet will get you more clean headroom. Are you running the original speaker?

'76, calls for 5u4 but puts plates at about 385v. I'm at 430v now with the 5ar4 so a drop of around 10v will put me closer to the schematic. Also with the 5u4, as I'm monitoring plate voltage, it almost immediately spikes at just over 500v for a few seconds then slowly settles down. The current also spikes to about 38ma. then settles down to around 19-20ma. I know nothing is probably conducting much since the cathodes aren't warmed up yet but the thought scares me.

Right now I am using a reissue Jensen p10q which sounded sweet with my princeton non reverb but really gets rattly with bass notes when cranked and is a little too compressed on the top end. I'm looking at either a weber 10f150(t) maybe with a little dope, or the eminence legend, probably the 102 with the alnico mag. I find alnico's to not be as brittle on the top end IMHO. I like compression, just not so much that I loose all note definition.

 

[alnicopu]

Sorry, I meant using the TungSol preamp tube. I'd use a copper cap if you are looking for headroom.


Did Weber ever come out with the bridge option on the copper caps to dial in sag is the question ?? I could be wording that wrong, knowing little about rectifiers than sag in the circuit etc.

I'll check on that, interesting concept in a SS rectifier. I like the idea of being able to dial in a little sponge. Thanks

 

[alnicopu]

Get rid of the EH 12at7 and look for a GE 12at7wa/6201. Sylvania 12xa7's are usually a bit higher in gain than most. The new Tung Sol 12ax7 robt57 mentioned is a good idea. RCA 12ax7's are hard to beat for clarity and warmth but are quite expensive these days. The JJ 6V6's will give you the most headroom compared to any other new production tube or NOS.

Thanks, I checked on the GE 12at7wa and their running around 20.00-35.00 on the few sites I saw that had them. Your right about the sylanias. I liked them in my non reverb princeton and Vibro Champ, they were also a little brighter, but I think the extra oomph on my PR is counter productive to what I'm looking for. Other than that, they are absolutely dead quiet tubes.

 

[TNO]

The TungSol reissue and new TAD 6V6s sound great... as in good enough not to bother with NOS. The JJ doesn't sound like a real 6V6.

 

[alnicopu]

The TungSol reissue and new TAD 6V6s sound great... as in good enough not to bother with NOS. The JJ doesn't sound like a real 6V6.

Thanks, I may try both. Just the type info. I'm searching for.

I was just telling my wife. I'm gonna let this amp be a TDPRI project. I have already gotten down to a couple of speaker choices per suggestions from my "what speaker" post. I am going to be doing the same with tubes. Lots of players and gurus here, so I'm expecting this to be an interesting and highly successful project. When I'm (we're) done, maybe I'll get someone, who is better than a weekend hobbiest do a video of the finished project.

 

[slider313]

The "reissue" Jensen P10Q will break up sooner, due to the magnet size, and give you more compression when pushed; which turns into less definition as you raise the volume. If you want clean headroom you'll probably be better off with a ceramic speaker. The WGS G10C is a great sounding speaker in Fender amps. I've been through quite a few speakers, in my '64 Vibrolux Reverb, and installed a pair of G10C's with great results.

 

[DOGMA Dunn]

Some SFPRs came with 5u4g, I would stick with that and the tung sol 6v6, the jjs will be bigger and have a lot more heat. But it will give you more clean sparkel and punchy bass at moderate volume, but they do not sound as good as the tung sol when you find the sweet spot. The tung sol IMO are good but they perform better at moderate to loud volumes. The 5u4 will geive you more sag than the GZ34, and will sound more creamy when you use the tung sol. Avoid the bottle 5u4.

 

[etiquettemona]

+1 on the G10 C.

I put one in my SF Princeton.
I sounds just like WGS says, like an "old Jensen on steroids".
Grrrreat speaker!

 

[eggman]

Howdy,

I'd spring for NOS preamp tubes. As for output tubes, I'd lean toward JJ's 6V6s. Good luck!

 

[tazzboy]

JJ for me from Bob at Eurotubes in Portland.

 

[DavidP]

At that GZ34 plate voltage...

I'd run either JJs or NOS RCAs. I have a NOS JAN 5751 in V1 in my SFPR, also replaced the original Oxfart with a Weber 10F150T, and its never coming out.