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Jensen C10R vs Eminence Copperhead: samples with a PRRI

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Soopajeanmi, May 23, 2009.

  1. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    soopajeanmi, I'm not trying to be condescending. As a snapshot of "before and after", it's an acceptable comparison. If you presented the clips with the disclaimer:

    "I picked the jensen simply because it's the speaker that the PRRI comes equipped with...That's the speaker Fender chose to put in that amp.

    I picked the copperhead because it's a speaker readily available here in Europe (weber are double the price than in the US) and I thought it was supposed to be in the same ball park, being described as vintage flavor."

    I simply felt the specs of the two speakers was a relevant bit of information, and that they had less in common (because of those differences) than a direct comparison would suggest.

    No insult was intended, just a differing opinion.

    I once put a 12" EV in my Princeton. It blew the original speaker away, literally no comparison. I mean, by replacing one with the other, I was really comparing them, but the sound was so different, the amp lost some of it's quirky personality. In contrast, your choice was much more realistic, so let's just agree to having different viewpoints, not trying to offend you.
     
  2. Soopajeanmi

    Soopajeanmi TDPRI Member

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    Thanks Strat a various for making your point clear. I must admit I have no idea about the consequences on tone of bigger magnets, different cones, etc.

    Still, I'm willing to learn more on that topic. What speakers do you think would be good candidate for a princeton, in the jensen/eminence/celestion catalog (sorry, but that's what readily available here, i know webers are great)?
     
  3. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    In those brands I like the Eminence 102K for vintage bluesy tones. I have a MOD 12-50 that sounds better than anything else I've tried in the price range, so I'd probably pick a Jensen MOD 10-50 for a Princeton, personally. I like a dark tone, so for brighter timbres, the Emi alnico may be more to your liking.
    If you like the Copperhead, it's a great speaker. I find it a bit congested sounding, but my tone settings are going to be different from yours. I have a 10" Jensen C10Q that I don't care for by itself ... the mids are scooped too much, the bass is too rich, but the highs are beautiful. Paired with a speaker with tight bass response and good mids, it adds a lot. I used it with a 12" last week and the sound was superb, but by itself in a combo, don't like it.
    I don't have that old blackface Princeton anymore, but it had a open, airy sound that suited clean tones, and I had finally settled on an Eminence stock MusicMan speaker for it. Those old MusicMan speakers from the late 70s sounded great in smaller amps.
    I spend too much money buying used speakers on ebay, and I've been lucky so far. Most of them have been fully functional, a couple were blown, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. Contrary to the majority opinion hereabouts, I like the sound of an old JBL in a Princeton, used to see those once in a while in Silverface Princeton Reverbs in big recording studios.
     
  4. rickso

    rickso TDPRI Member

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    jenson /verses eminence

    Thks for the demo, the jenson sounded warmer to my hears,I guess it depends what you play, it's all subjective-there is no good or bad--
    I play jazz the jenson would work better-
     
  5. still_fiddlin

    still_fiddlin Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Didn't see this before. I just tried an Eminence Ragin Cajun in my PRRI. Did not work for me. I had it sitting in a box - previously was in an Epiphone Valve Special, where it was an improvement, but in the Fender, uh uh. I know it's probably more sensitive, but it felt like there was a hump to get over to get it moving, and that was past where I usually play (mic'd). Not a bad sound, but I'm back to the stock, made in Italy, C10R.
     
  6. rickso

    rickso TDPRI Member

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    some nice playing, great demo, love that jazz, would liked it heard with the jenson, but i liked the tone of the Eminence
    Thank you, great job
     
  7. Joey

    Joey Tele-Holic

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    Thanks for doing this comparison. First let me say that I could not care less about manufacturer name. I am always interested in improving my tone. I replace the Jensen in my Blues Junior NOS with an Emi C-Rex and love it.
    I also have a PRRI with the stock Jensen C10R. To my ears, the Copperhead seemed a little more trebly and harsh on on the high end and had less bottom than the Jensen. I also agree with one a member comment that found it a bit nasally. I would be interested in hearing a sound clip comparing the C10R to the Weber 10F150 and the 10F150T.
    At this point, I believe the C10R is probably one of the few reissues that Jensen got right. However, I am always looking for better tone if it is out there.
     
  8. Groberts

    Groberts Tele-Holic

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    To be fair, I didn't like either Speaker. The Jensen sounded muddy and not distinct enough and the Emminence sounded too thin, bright and edgy. The Emminence sounds harsh to my ears. It would make me crazy really quick.

    I Vote Weber 10F125T or Weber 10F150T Light dope. I owned a PRRI for quite a while a tried a lot of speakers.

    Ulimately, I actually prefered a 12" with a new Speaker Baffle in my PRRI. Went with a Mojotone BV-30H ..a very very nice Celestion G12H30 clone.
     
  9. thejerk

    thejerk Tele-Meister

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    I applaud the OP for posting the clips.

    Very different sounds, depending on what you're going for. I like the sound of the Jensen, but I bet you could get a similar tone with some EQing on the Eminence (but not the other way 'round).

    Clearly, to me, this was a situation where the OP recorded with the stock speaker, then his replacement speaker, and put the comparison up for us in case we were in the market for a speaker and wanted to hear the difference. His goal wasn't to go out and buy a bunch of similar speakers and compare them.

    Get off his case! He was trying to do something nice, and got pooped on for it.

    Well my brother, I appreciate your time and effort, and found it to be an interesting and useful comparison. Thank you!

    I like some of the Jensen RIs personally, I have a C10Q in one of my amps that works very well IMO for what I'm doing.
     
  10. StratQuebec

    StratQuebec TDPRI Member

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    I'm glad I found this thread. The timing couldn't more perfect. I was thinking of going for a copperhead. Thanks to the OP for posting thoses clips. Both sound excellent.
     
  11. Joey

    Joey Tele-Holic

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    Thanks Soopajeanmi for providing these sound clips.
     
  12. Soopajeanmi

    Soopajeanmi TDPRI Member

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    Thx!

    Finally I put a weber 10F150T in my PRRI and it's my favorite of the 3 speakers: fuller in the mids than the C10R, but more sparkly and a little less nasal than the Copperhead.
     
  13. figaro

    figaro Tele-Meister

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    Thank you for a great speaker comparison Soopajeanmi. I prefer the sound and tone of the Jensen C10R. It has more low end fullness. I like the brightness of the Copperhead, but miss the low end. I also would liked to have heard them louder and with a little overdrive. The Copperhead probably would sound better played that way.

    I'm sure most of you know this, the C10R (like most speakers) sounds much better (fuller tone) after it has been broken-in.

    I agree that you also need to look at what you are comparing. Look at the C10R's small magnet, it is only rated at 25 watts! Is there another 25 watt speaker that sounds better? And the best part is that the C10R only costs about $40! I don't know about you, but I always consider the cost when I compare speakers. I guess I'm just a "best buy" kind of guy. I'm not going to pay twice as much just because a speaker sounds just a little better. For example, I know the Celestion blue and gold speakers sound awesome, but I'm not going to pay that much for a speaker.

    I agree with Joey, the C10R is one reissue that Jensen got RIGHT. Just try 4 of them in your Super Reverb, and then tell me it's not a great speaker!
     
  14. Cooleyman

    Cooleyman Tele-Meister

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    Same here. I also did the BillM TO20 transformer swap. That and the weber put the PRRI in a whole new league.
     
  15. BiggerJohn

    BiggerJohn Friend of Leo's

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    I agree. The Emmi just seemed to have more of everything. More articulate highs, bigger lows, crystal clear mids. Clear winner IMO.
     
  16. JamonHamon

    JamonHamon Friend of Leo's

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    I liked the Jensen better it sounded more bell like
     
  17. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Tele-Afflicted

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    Soopajeanmi, thanks for the demo's. I found them to be the most useful, clean speaker demo's, that I could find. When I listened to the clean clips, from the Eminence site, they all sounded the same to me.

    When I was looking for speakers for my SCXD's, I ended up with a Jensen C10R in one, Eminence Legend 105 in the other. After 6 months: the Legend 105 is my favorite on the clean channel, the C10R for lower volume (with tweed Deluxe modeling).
     
  18. justatwanging

    justatwanging Banned

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    I chose the Eminence Copperhead for my Super Champ XD and like it very much. The amp does not have a mid range control and the Copperhead does a good job bringing out the mids. I can always roll off some treble on the amp/guitar.
    From my experience sound clips played over computer speakers are not true representations of what the amp/speaker combination sounds like in person.
    The best 10 inch speaker to my ears is not even made anymore. It was a Reverend ALL-Tone 1030 [the old Naylor speaker].
    Fender uses parts from other vendors based PRIMARILY on the cost. I'm sure this was a major factor in them switching from Eminence to Jensen in their re-issue amps.
    Bob Sperzel himself told me once that it was just $2.00/SET price difference between himself and the Fender logo Schallers that kept every USA Series [non vintage] Strat or Tele from coming with locking Sperzels. We are talking $2.00 added to the cost of production of a Tele or a Strat.I'm sure Fender could have increased the price by $2.00 per unit and still sold guitars.
    But hey, business is business and that's the reality.
     
  19. tkingen

    tkingen Tele-Meister

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    I know this thread is old but I just read it and heard the demos for the first time.

    For this style of playing I prefer the sound of the C10R. It sounds more old school, like a tone the jazz players from the 50's and 60's would have used. The Copperhead sounds hifi-ish and modern, imho.

    I'm starting to feel that putting a high wattage speaker in a low wattage amp makes the amp something different than it is. Takes more volume to get the speaker working and finger sensitivity gets lost, kind of like an electronic keyboard that isn't touch sensitive. I suppose if you're a loud player with distortion pedals this could be a good thing.
     
  20. lareplus

    lareplus Tele-Afflicted

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    i like the C10R better as well, a better jazz tone in my opinion.

    i wonder, however, what the Warehouse G10c might sound like in comparison. The samples from the WGS site sound pretty good, but they are brief.
     
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