JBL cone split- fixable?

[bingy]

I have had fantastic results using clear acrylic caulking and a small brush. No tissue or added fibrous material at all.

 

[mherrcat]

I appreciate Macaroonie's comments, and the contact info for Ken Haerr, and several other folk's comments as well. I also agree that IF YOU RECONE you should source parts from an expert in JBL. Nevertheless, any JBL expert will tell you that the JBL is a high precision device, the OEM parts themselves were very special compared to the garden variety Jensen/Oxford, and the tolerances in assembly are very very tight. Getting it to work and getting it to work as JBl intended can be two different things...and without a solid laboratory reference for "correct", any amateur re-coning for the first time is really just guessing about the final tonal outcome. (Not talking about properly equipped folks like Orange County, etc.)

No disrespect to BobbyZ either - Bobby, you know I truly respect your huge input and wisdom here on the forum. I just have serious doubts as to the ability of Chinese rebrand kits to meet JBL spec. This is based on a fairly thorough understanding and firsthand exposure to the typical deficiencies in Chinese mfg. practices. (Yes, I've been to China, and observed manufacturing practices.)

Remember, the difference between an OEM JBL edge wound voice coil and a Chinese "fits and works" may be only a few thousandths of an inch...but that few thousandths can make all the difference in the world in positioning the VC in the sweet spot of the magnetic flux in the JBL voice coil gap. This one factor hugely affects the efficiency and tonality of the speaker, as does the precise composition of the cone material. And this doesn't even get into such things as the precise metallurgy of the VC itself or the pliability of the surround, or a dozen other factors which make re-cone kit construction such a black art.

Based on a pretty fair familiarity with the inability of China-parts to hit tolerances and maintain metallurgy specs (and just personally) I would still attempt a quality repair on the one with the split edge. In my experience, if correctly done this speaker will function as new for many more years. Further, when properly repaired, it can be expected to sound exactly correct, because the parts are exactly original and aligned as JBL intended. Finally, you can always re-cone at a later date...but once you rip out the original parts, there's no going back.

I did not see the picture of the other speaker, which I understand by others comments must be re-coned to achieve a repair. I'm only talking about the one with the edge split.

Just my opinion.

Not trying to start a war here, but this is the kind talk that scares people away from trying to do this themselves. I'm willing to bet (figuratively) that Orange County Speakers installs their kits the same way everyone else does. I doubt they have some "precision" jig that aligns the voice coil precisely the same way in the gap every single time. If that were the case it seems they would need a jig for every different manufacturer and speaker size. Again, doubtful. If they did you would probably see it mentioned on their website and maybe even a video of it in use.

Regarding the quality of the components, some questions to ask of the various repair services might be: Do you make your own voice coils? Do you make your own spiders? Do you make your own surrounds? Do you make your own cones? If not, where do you get them?

If you are trying to assemble ALL of the components yourself (voice coil, spider, cone, surround) I agree, there is way too much room for error. That is why, for my own recone, I chose the pre-assembled kit.

Reconing your own speaker may ultimately be like building your own guitar with parts from Warmoth or anyone else; you might end up with a nice sounding guitar for the same price (or more) that you would pay for a Fender. On the other hand, you could buy a Fender and end up with a guitar whose tone sucks. The thing you WILL get if you send your speaker out to be repaired is the warranty assurance that you can send it back if something is not right.

I'm not saying EVERYONE should recone their own speakers. Just that it is an option.

 

[macaroonie]

Just a footnote re Orange County Speaker Repair , they have scored many de merits for re foaming JBL's with the surround on the front of the cone.
I'm a long standing forum member at Audioheritage ( JBL enthusiasts / nerds site ) and OC keep on doing this. It's laziness , nothing else.

 

[mabley123]

If I was going to have it Reconed Orange County Speaker is the Only 1 I would use as their replacement Recone for the JBL D120 F is an Exact replica. And IT AINT CHEAP.

I may be wrong but I have looked........ and Orange County is the only 1 that says they have an Exact JBL D120F recone kit.

I wouldn't start my practice on this speaker.

 

[WJBallantyne]

I appreciate Macaroonie's comments, and the contact info for Ken Haerr, and several other folk's comments as well. I also agree that IF YOU RECONE you should source parts from an expert in JBL. Nevertheless, any JBL expert will tell you that the JBL is a high precision device, the OEM parts themselves were very special compared to the garden variety Jensen/Oxford, and the tolerances in assembly are very very tight. Getting it to work and getting it to work as JBl intended can be two different things...and without a solid laboratory reference for "correct", any amateur re-coning for the first time is really just guessing about the final tonal outcome. (Not talking about properly equipped folks like Orange County, etc.)

No disrespect to BobbyZ either - Bobby, you know I truly respect your huge input and wisdom here on the forum. I just have serious doubts as to the ability of Chinese rebrand kits to meet JBL spec. This is based on a fairly thorough understanding and firsthand exposure to the typical deficiencies in Chinese mfg. practices. (Yes, I've been to China, and observed manufacturing practices.)

Remember, the difference between an OEM JBL edge wound voice coil and a Chinese "fits and works" may be only a few thousandths of an inch...but that few thousandths can make all the difference in the world in positioning the VC in the sweet spot of the magnetic flux in the JBL voice coil gap. This one factor hugely affects the efficiency and tonality of the speaker, as does the precise composition of the cone material. And this doesn't even get into such things as the precise metallurgy of the VC itself or the pliability of the surround, or a dozen other factors which make re-cone kit construction such a black art.

Based on a pretty fair familiarity with the inability of China-parts to hit tolerances and maintain metallurgy specs (and just personally) I would still attempt a quality repair on the one with the split edge. In my experience, if correctly done this speaker will function as new for many more years. Further, when properly repaired, it can be expected to sound exactly correct, because the parts are exactly original and aligned as JBL intended. Finally, you can always re-cone at a later date...but once you rip out the original parts, there's no going back.

I did not see the picture of the other speaker, which I understand by others comments must be re-coned to achieve a repair. I'm only talking about the one with the edge split.

Just my opinion.

The one I was talking about with the split IS the one that was in the worst condition. The other I didn't include because its damage is not nearly as serious. I totally understand what you're saying about replacement parts... if it is possible to keep the original cone I will. If I get it fixed by someone I will have them try to repair the original first, as it seems I have a couple of the most desirable speakers around. I'll tell you, when I tried the Twin before removing the speaker it sounded wonderful. (Btw just to be more specific these are grey frame with aluminum dustcaps)

 

[BobbyZ]

No disrespect to BobbyZ .

Non taken. I haven't had to recone a JBL yet but with D131s in a BFTR I may at some point.
Depending on what website you look at.

Adding up the Weber parts for a JBL it's about 40 bucks plus glue. So not really a cheap or easy one for a first timer.
I don't know if those are MIC parts. I wouldn't be supprised though.

 

[macaroonie]

To WJ , clearly a Scotsman I have to mention , it would help a lot if you could post front and back pics of the drivers. It matters which surround is on the cone and so on . The comments re aftermarket kits are on the nail , very few use edgewound coils for example , and in your case the coils are aluminium on a kapton former. Not all the kits are this way and it does influence matters.
Without getting into a bun fight I do know without reservation that Upland / Ken Haerr /Edgewound ( in forums ) will get you as near to original as it is possible to do.
FWIW I was the recone dude for JBL in Scotland in the early 80's.

This is Ken's kit on a bay

(link removed)

I have no affiliation with this man other than knowing his reputation is golden .

 

[CoolBlueGlow]

This is a really good discussion about this issue. It is reallynice to see civility and discussion, not flame wars.

And Macaroonie, even though I'm Irish, I appreciate the Scots enough that I married one!

She sometimes reminds me...

If you want a book about it, hire an Englishman
If you want a party to celebrate it, hire an Irishman
If you want to GET IT DONE, hire a Scotsman

 

[mherrcat]

This is a really good discussion about this issue. It is reallynice to see civility and discussion, not flame wars.

Well, it's early yet...

 

[steveneddy]

Don't attempt to repair them yourself.

Send them to a speaker repair shop with a good reputation and ask them to recone them for you.

Reconing is really the only acceptable way to repair a speaker.

If it is a good shop they should have something there that should sound and react close to if not exactly the same as the original speakers.

http://freemantuell.com/

Freeman-Tuell Speaker Service, LLC
7911 Ferguson Rd.
Dallas, TX 75228
Telephone: 214.324.1132

 

[macaroonie]

OP is in Canada eh , isn't shipping in and out of the US hugely expensive ?

Asked because I don't know but seem to recall something being mentioned.

 

[pete-strych]

Elmer's glue, paper towel, & black spray paint.
Works!

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

 

[WJBallantyne]

Well I have patched it carefully with the glue/tissue paper method and it is working well as of now. When the time comes that the patch fails or I need it in as-original-as-possible condition, I shall proceed using the options all ye good people have presented. Many thanks. As of now, those JBL's are making some pretty sweet noises.
(And yes, macaroonie, I am indeed Canuck by birth and Scottish by ancestry. And prood of it, laddie. )

 

[macaroonie]

Result. Curious how you fixed the one that was split half the way round.,

 

[slauson slim]

Neal's Speaker Repair.

http://www.nealspeakerrepair.com

For me he has worked on D120Fs and D140s, and has reconed/refoamed the woofers from my jbl L36 and L77 stereo speakers from the '70s.

 

[chezdeluxe]

As a man with a bitter experience of a recone of a K120 I have found this listing on eBay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Recone-kit-for-JBL-D120F-K120-E120-/271281390236?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item3f29a1829c

The blurb sounds pretty good. Anyone have any experience with this gentleman.

 

[macaroonie]

As a man with a bitter experience of a recone of a K120 I have found this listing on eBay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Recone-kit-for-JBL-D120F-K120-E120-/271281390236?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item3f29a1829c

The blurb sounds pretty good. Anyone have any experience with this gentleman.

Read post 27 in this thread

Cones marked MW---- come from http://www.mwaspeakerparts.com/
previously sold as Waldom as I recall however as you note its for a 2202 not a 120. 2202 is a pro bass driver. There was a pro equivalent of the 120 series 2130 ( whereas the D130 = 2135 in pro, wierdly) so by deduction it should have been marked MW2130 to be correct.
I am given to understand that WMA have the molds for the early cones but this could well be urban myth. They do make the parts for a lot of the aftermarket kits.
So , not necessarily a bad cone ( the 2202 ) just not the correct one.

I'll bet it sounded dull /dark compared to the real deal.

 

[WJBallantyne]

Result. Curious how you fixed the one that was split half the way round.,

I patched that with the tissue-paper-and-glue method mentioned above, pre-moistening split and patch with glue just as you pre-tin solder contacts; except I used white waterbase glue instead of the harsher cement. The one with the halfway-round split is the only one I've worked on so far. The other isn't nearly as serious. As I also cleared up a hum in the reverb circuit of the Twin it belongs to by cleaning/lubing the reverb pot, it's functioning nicely as of now.

 

[chezdeluxe]

.....So , not necessarily a bad cone ( the 2202 ) just not the correct one.

I'll bet it sounded dull /dark compared to the real deal.

That is one of the great understatements of all time

Paired with my original K120 ,each in a separate 1x12 enclosure, the two work together well however.