Jazz tone

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by craigoslo, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    Hi.

    I am struggling with low output on my thin e sting when i roll my tone down.

    About my tele:
    Has fralin standard tele pups.
    Strings: set of 10's but with the thin e switched to 11
    Volume on 8
    Tone on 7
    Distance between the neck pup and thin e string depressed on last fret. 3/32
    Distance between the neck pup and thick e string depressed on last fret. 3/8

    The 6th to the 3rd sound great, the 2nd is pretty great, the 1st lacks balls and output.
    If I put the tone and volume on full, the the first string comes alive again but it can be a bit bright for jazz sometimes.

    I am not sure what the tone cap is, but I could check if that would help.

    If it's the amp I would love some tips there. I have one with a three band Eq, and one with a tone knob.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  2. dlew919

    dlew919 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Adjust the pickup height.
     
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  3. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    How close is too close?

    Distance between the neck pup and thin e string depressed on last fret. 3/32
    Distance between the neck pup and thick e string depressed on last fret. 3/8
     
  4. blille

    blille Tele-Afflicted

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    With that setup it should work ok. I now have a humbucker in my "jazz tele" but I used to have a single coil.

    What amp and speaker do you have? Have you tried it in several?

    You may also want to experiment with the cap in your guitar wiring. What do you have now? 0.5? You may want to try 0.2 or even lower.
     
  5. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

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    Pick the string harder. Don't baby that low mass string.
     
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  6. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

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    Also, use a thick pick. As in 1.5mm or more.
     
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  7. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    IMO, for jazz sounds, you want 'flat' not rolled off highs. A big tone cap will shave more highs and start to muffle out the high notes, and since there's not usually much distortion on Jazz sounds, you dont get as many overtones to compensate.
    Try rolling the tone back to '9' instead of '7' and turn the mids up on your amp. You want to set the amp pretty flat as far as EQ. With a passive tone stack, this usually means setting the 'bass' and 'treble' very low and mids almost, if not totally dimed.


    you can also try to get the pickup resonance in the 1400-1800hz range which should sound 'jazzy' You can achieve this with a relatively small tone capacitor on your tone control, and then rolling the control to '0' you'd probably be looking for caps in the 2.2nF-4.7nF range. Compare that to the typical 22nF, 47nF, and 100nF tone cap values, which cut a large amount of high/upper mid frequencies.
     
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  8. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    I took a look at the cap. It's orange and 3/4 inch rectangle.

    2 715 P200v 473J 0818

    Don't know what that means.
     
  9. teleaddicted

    teleaddicted Tele-Holic

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    473 means 47000 pico Farads = 47 nano Farads = .047 micro Farads.
    200v means the cap is rated for max 200 Volts tension.
     
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  10. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    I tried the bass and treble almost off and the mids almost dimed (with guitar tone and volume on 9) and it helped alot. I never thought that such extreme settings would sound good, but I guess a dark jazz sound isn't typical. This was not quite as stage volume though so it will be interesting to see how that effects things.
     
  11. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    So maybe I need a smaller cap if I want to use the tone control to shape the sound intstead of the amp.
     
  12. teleaddicted

    teleaddicted Tele-Holic

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    You should definitely try different values for the cap.

    As a reference here is what I found in my 2013 Gibson SG '60 Tribute with Burstbucker1 (neck) & Burstbucker2 (bridge):
    a 25V - 223 ceramic capacitor (223 stands for 22000 pico Farads = 22 nano Farads = .022 micro Farads);
    it works wonderfully not getting too muddy when it's potenziometer is turned to zero - same value for both pickups.

    2014-10-03 19.57.21.jpg
     
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  13. adjason

    adjason Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    lots of jazz guys crank the mids and cut the bass and treble on amps
     
  14. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, among a lot of other good advice, so I'll throw it out there. If you use this guitar exclusively for jazz, I would seriously consider going to a set of 12 gauge strings. You can use flatwounds or roundwounds depending on the sound you're going for. I've tried both and I like the round ones because they seem to have a more balanced high-end. This will not only add fullness to your tone, but it will help with the output of the higher strings also. If you're like me though, this may make the string tension a little higher than you're comfortable with. There are a couple options for dealing with this too. If you have a bridge that doubles as a top loader, you may try top-loading the strings. Or you can do what I do and tune down to E flat or D. This may make some of your arrangements a little complicated if you play with other people, at least initially...though it could ultimately help when playing in "horn keys." If you're solo jazzer, it won't be a problem. Just play as normal and tune down. It will add warmth without getting muddy or assassinating your high-end. And you'll be able to use your tone control as intended, turned up much higher and coloring your tone as opposed to drawing the high-end out of it. Just my .02. Good luck.
     
  15. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    Thanks for the tip. I have considered going up a set and have already gone up a gauge on the thin E string (the one I am struggling with). I don't know if it has made a difference but hasn't hurt.
     
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  16. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    This worked great on my amp with a 3 band EQ. Great tips guys. Still struggling with my other amp that only has a tone control.
     
  17. craigoslo

    craigoslo Tele-Meister

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    I am trying to source a .015 locally. If I can't find one, I will try a .022. I'm sure that will at least help some.
     
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  18. blille

    blille Tele-Afflicted

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    It will. It just doesn't cut such a broad frequency. I have a 0.005 on my jazz tele, which is a bit of the extreme but .02 should help.
     
  19. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Most likely Blackface Fender tone stacks, which are scooped from the git go. Cranking the mids on them yields a flattish EQ. On other tonestacks like Baxandall (Polytone), they dial closer to flat.
     
  20. televillian

    televillian Tele-Afflicted

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    in my case it`s a hearing problem
     
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