Jazz guitar tone secrets

[Mike Eskimo]

Neck humbucker, tone turned down on the guitar, super thick tiny teardrop pick, Amp with treble on 1/4, bass full, faced away from the audience with a couple of moving pads draped over it both front and back.

Voila ! The jazz guitar tone !


You need to be able to hear the string! I’m sure Grant Green took some crap because on a lot of his recordings you can hear the string!

I’m sure the “Muffly jazz guitar” police were after him because you could hear the string!

Hell, there’s Even plenty of Metheny where you can tell he is purposely muffling it up. It’s just one tone in the toolbox But Man I can’t stand a lot of that woolly bebop.

To my ear, too many jazz guitarists dial out too much of the high and mid ranges so they're left sounding like the amp is wrapped in a rug. You get a more pleasing effect IMO by keeping the amp and guitar settings lively (with a full range of tone from bass to treble, including plentiful mids) and softening the attack by playing with your thumb and fingers or with a thick, rounded pick. And don't shy away from a little breakup.

That's what I aim for, anyway. The Tim Lerch video linked above says it all.

 

[teletimetx]

 

[darkwaters]

I'm a big Kenny Burrell fan, especially that time period when he was produced by Rudy Van Gelder and used the Tweed Deluxe that the studio provided. My favorite Jazz tone. I can approximate it with a TS9 type OD/Distortion with the gain way low, treble backed off, but not rolled back completely and my JOYO AS, which does a very respectable job of recreating the Fender Tweed sound, mid forward. With a couple of tweaks, it can also get me into that 50s Chicago Blues sound.

I find it a very inspiring sound, both warm, but edgy at the same time, because of that hint of breakup.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

That bright/articulate tone of the 50's/60's guitarists was in large part...the guitars and amps.

PAF, early PAT# pickups, and P90 Gibson guitars in that era are just plain old bright and clear sounding. Couple that with the old amps, mostly alnico speakers in Fenders/Ampegs/Standels then the big flats. Not a complicated recipe. Most new guitars that follow the basic formula properly can get there too.

Polytone? Hell no.

These days lots of budget humbucker/P90 guitars just sound fatter, whether it's the wiring or the pickups who knows but there sure is **** is a difference.

Check out Mr. Baty doing some CC at the beginning of this video:

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Polytone? Hell no.

C'mon, that's what Benson used on Breezin'

 

[kennl]

Rudy Van Gelder's studio had a tweed Fender and an Ampeg

 

[darkwaters]

Rudy Van Gelder's studio had a tweed Fender and an Ampeg

Interesting. Do you happen to know what model?

 

[RadioFM74]

It seems like there is a real art to getting a good jazz tone, one that is seldom mastered. A lot of guitarists on jazz recordings get a tone that strikes me as drab and uninteresting, particularly when compared to reed and brass instruments. There are notable exceptions, of course -- Wes Montgomery always sounds awesome, probably because of his thumb technique. I like Philip Catherine's tone a lot, which I think is mainly a question of wise "dialing in", because he uses a variety of amps. Some guitarists, like Robben Ford, achieve a gorgeous tone using overdrive, but I am more interested here in finding out how people can get a big, colorful tone using just a jazz box and an amp. Any insights?

As others noted, there are so many jazz sounds. If I had to identify a general rule of thumb valid for me whenever I play jazz – no matter the guitar or the amp – there's always a little (or a lot) volume roll-off as Tim Lerch says. I don't touch my tone control, and I don't put my amp in a position where it would embarrass itself ("hey, seriously? Bass 10 and Treble on 0?"). I just roll of a little volume and pay some extra attention to how/where I pick.

From there, it's all the style you want to achieve…
- Dick McDonough (arguably the most beautiful acoustic arch top sound ever achieved)? No pickup, no amp… get a good acoustic archtop – a Loar will do – and practice! If Django, you might want a dedicated acoustic but an arch top will do fine too.
- Charlie Christian, Barney, early Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, René Thomas, Django's lovely electric records, Remo Palmieri… my heroes? Get a hollow guitar with an archaic pickup (DeArmond, CC, P-90) into an archaic amp and swing. DON'T EVEN LOOK AT HUMBUCKERS, OK? And put that Polytone down. That tweed, there… might do. But if you find an old Epiphone or Gibson, better. If you think you're Junior Barnard, you have permission to turn it up.
- More modern, say Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Wes… the same recipe will work wonderfully, but as you move on from late 50s/early 60s to mid-60s, you're allowed to look at humbuckers and at blackface amps.
- More modern still? Ask someone else ;D

But really, there's people who can make an ES-125 into a Hot Rod Deluxe sound literally like the best jazz sound that there ever was…



… but I'll always be partial to DeArmonds…

 

[Novak]

My interpretation of jazz technique is that every string needs to sound similar to create a continuous note-to-note tone; no "twang", bite or ring and very few open strings. You don't want to be able to tell when you go from a wound string to an unwound one. BTW the g string may need to be wound depending on your grip etc. The sound may be a little over-driven for sustain, but not much. Also you need heavier gauge strings or you'll bend notes sharp doing those stretchy/awkward chords. Despite anything people tell you, your telecaster CAN do jazz.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

C'mon, that's what Benson used on Breezin'

Exactly!




This..

Versus...




No contest.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Interesting. Do you happen to know what model?

A bunch.

IIRC Ampeg sent Rudy the new model every year so all the New York guys could try them out. They all sound good to me and are cheaper than a used TDPRI's favorite "Tonemaster"

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Exactly!




This..

Versus...




No contest.

Horses for courses.

 

[Allan Allan]

All I know is I really like how this guitar sounds

 

[loopfinding]

Interesting. Do you happen to know what model?

somehwere in the game of telephone it was decided "tweed fender" was a tweed deluxe (5E3). dunno how accurate that really is, but i built one on that hunch (not for raunchy blues tones) and ended up very satisfied. without that info maybe i would have built a small gibson that my coworker seems to love.

 

[Mr Perch]

C'mon, that's what Benson used on Breezin'

I used to own a Minibrute. I liked it. Did they go out of business? I heard Herb Ellis once, playing through one. He was one of those "turn the tone knob to one" guys, and his tone sounded sort of like a flute.

I bought a Fender modeling amp for convenience, and when the pandemic is brought under control I plan to tote it to jam sessions. I am having best luck with the Deluxe Reverb simulation.

 

[loopfinding]

C'mon, that's what Benson used on Breezin'

i dig breezin very much, i love gimme the night, and i've been at the front row at a benson concert, but i think of that point and onwards as r&b tone (and a pretty great thing to add to r&b) and much less of a "jazz-hep-cat-come-on-guys-this-is-serious-no-fun-allowed" tone.

 

[bottlenecker]

It seems like there is a real art to getting a good jazz tone, one that is seldom mastered. A lot of guitarists on jazz recordings get a tone that strikes me as drab and uninteresting, particularly when compared to reed and brass instruments. There are notable exceptions, of course -- Wes Montgomery always sounds awesome, probably because of his thumb technique. I like Philip Catherine's tone a lot, which I think is mainly a question of wise "dialing in", because he uses a variety of amps. Some guitarists, like Robben Ford, achieve a gorgeous tone using overdrive, but I am more interested here in finding out how people can get a big, colorful tone using just a jazz box and an amp. Any insights?

Do you like Charlie Christian's sound? I can enjoy some later, cleaner sorts of sounds now and then, but I have much less appetite for the flatwounds and solid state sounds. Charlie Christian sounded like a party.
I like single coil pickups, a little grit from the amp, and roundwounds. I wish more jazz guitarists would go for the earlier sounds.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

I used to own one. I liked it. Did they go out of business? I heard Herb Ellis once, playing through one. He was one of those "turn the tone knob to one" guys, and his tone sounded sort of like a flute.

I bought a Fender modeling amp for convenience, and when the pandemic is brought under control I plan to tote it to jam sessions. I am having best luck with the Deluxe Reverb simulation.

Polytone went out of business when the owner died. Henriksen is cited as the "modern Polytone". Their EQ is flexible, so Polytone Haterz, don't set your hair on fire quite yet.

https://www.henriksenamplifiers.com/

 

[Torren61]

Man, YouTube is harshing my comedic timing buzz... I wanted the video of Homer Simpson saying "Pffft, jazz. They just make it up as they go along..."

 

[Mike Eskimo]

A bunch.

IIRC Ampeg sent Rudy the new model every year so all the New York guys could try them out. They all sound good to me and are cheaper than a used TDPRI's favorite "Tonemaster"

I wish I could play jazz because then that would come out of this amp as well as all the garage rock and hack blues I play through it .

$190 in 2019 so - they can be found cheap . 1966 version