Jamming during gigs. Does anyone care?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by LunarSlingShot, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Meister

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    It's worth noting that the Dead started doing the extended jam thing because they were playing dance halls like Winterland, and people wanted to keep dancing, not stop every 3 minutes.

    Of course, while they were pioneering a musical genre, their audience was pioneering a new dancing genre, so there's that...
     
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  2. MDent77

    MDent77 Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes.

    I thoroughly enjoy listening to a well performed jam. (Whether I happen to be a part of it, or not.)

    The main ingredients; building up a groove, the experimentation with tasteful and creative comping (unique chords voicings and rhythm patterns that compliment and avoids stepping on others), but mostly setting a collective mood with rhythmic sections - more than a focus on structured melodic lines. When the time is right short and sweet solo's can be best, IMO. But a great jam is more a mood setter than an indulgence in solo's.
     
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  3. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Afflicted

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    You should ask the bar manager, he signs the pay check...
     
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  4. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    I'm 20 years younger. And me too. I don't need people to dance, though. Just some interest in what I'm playing. I would prefer to play original material. If no one is interested, I'd rather just play at home. Far less hassle for the same end result (satisfying my own ego).
     
  5. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    These days the numbers are about equal with more women picking up guitar. Look at FMICs advertising.
     
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  6. GuitarKid

    GuitarKid Tele-Holic

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    It's true that more women are picking up the guitar. But still we have a great data source called real world. Fender may say whatever it wants in order to target a potentially buying population, but in the real world I still see much more men playing guitar. Why that is? Well, there may be a reason...maybe because it's more natural to them to like guitar, and less natural to most women, just like most men find it unnatural to use finger polish. Stop thinking inside of this dualistic box dude. I greatly admire women for all that they are. My mother is a great woman who has been fighting cancer for 6 years and is still standing (if it was me I'm not sure how I would be). My wife is an amazing woman. I also have grandmothers, aunties, cousins. I love all of them. I'm not in a crusade to diminish women dude. If you stop targeting every little comment about women you see and hear, labeling it as "sexist", you may find the bigger picture. These days just acknowledging a simple statistic is called sexist. This is pretty neurotic and self-righteous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  7. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    ahem...

    Fender’s study also found that 72 percent of guitar players pick up a guitar for the first time to gain a life skill or improve themselves; 61 percent also simply want to learn how to play songs by themselves or with close friends and family, as opposed to trying to make it big. And 42 percent say they view guitar as part of their identity.

    All that is in spite of rock music slipping out of the top charts, ceding the throne to newer genres like hip-hop, which suggests that the persistence he guitar has as much to do with its value to individuals as an educational and social tool as its stage presence. Fender is now trying to draw out those quiet enthusiasts, who Mooney guesses have already been around for a while. “The advent of punk opened up an aperture to playing the instrument,” Mooney says. “It was less about virtuosity and more about having fun and self-expression. I think that applies both to bands and individuals who just wanted to pick up the instrument and master it to their own comfort level.”

    We can go back and forth all we want on perceived gender differences. But the fact remains that live jamming ain't where it's at for a significant portion of new guitar buyers.
     
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  8. LunarSlingShot

    LunarSlingShot Tele-Meister

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    I'm working on uploading a video example for context...

    From a couple of posts here I think our term for jamming would fall more along the lines of an extended guitar solo which general consensus seems to be that we drop it down to one song or eliminate it altogether, which I kind of agree with.

    Also I should have been slightly more clear in my OP. We do not do the extended songs because we do not want to learn any more songs. On the contrary we have about 50 songs under our belt at this point, while we only need 30-33 to fill out our gig. Before I was in the band they "jammed" as they had a really great lead player and they thought it was a good time. Once I joined they just decided to keep the same formula. I don't quite think I'm as great as improvising as the last guy, but my band apparently doesn't agree.
     
  9. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

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    I can't think of any reason I would care one way or the other.
     
  10. GuitarKid

    GuitarKid Tele-Holic

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    ....

    ...by making up inaccurate statistics such as the one that's been mentioned.
     
  11. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    This makes a lot of sense to me. If I'm going out to hear jazz or fusion or blues or a true jam band then I'll expect some long and clever improv. If you're a clover band and your guitar player is soloing forever to stretch a set then I'll get bored or irritated.

    There's a really simple solumtion. Learn 6 more songs so that each set lasts an hour. Just add a couple songs to each set. I'm sure you could learn 3 sons in one week and 3 songs the next week and just be legit with the set length. Pick out some songs! You can learn "Learn to Fly" by the Foo Fighters in 10 minutes and girls will dance their butts off to it. I speak from experience. Have fun!
     
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  12. WildcatTele

    WildcatTele Tele-Meister

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    This is rule number one of a bar band. If they're dancing, keep playing.
     
  13. GuitarKid

    GuitarKid Tele-Holic

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    Me too. If more women want to play guitar, more power to them. I'm not against it. It's just a fact that in general most women don't care about it compared to men. To me this gender talk is irrelevant. I pointed out a natural fact; I didn't want to turn this into a gender problematization. That was the other guy.
     
  14. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Perception is reality. Maybe you don’t see a lot of female musicians in your area. Different places have different population breakdowns. I work to keep my finger on the pulse of the local scene here where I live, cause I’m part of it, and it’s a really good scene. Huge, and very deep talent pool. I’m 46 and have been playing in this area for 21 years. One of the things I go out of my way to do is keep tabs on the young, up and coming crop of players and writers. The kids in their 20’s. Right now that crop is flat out SICK. Some of the best musicians on a really great scene are under thirty, and many are under 25. Some as young as 16-17, playing their arses off, and writing great material.

    There are as many young women as young men. Singers, writers, guitarists, bassists, keyboardists, drummers, there is no shortage of ladies playing live music around here. At all. And the majority of them do not suck.

    Now in contrast with the old guard, players my age and older... you’ll see few if any. The times they are definitely a changin’. These days there are easily as many young women on the scene as young men.
     
  15. GuitarKid

    GuitarKid Tele-Holic

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    Perception is not reality in my opinion.

    As I said I'm not attacking women who play. If they do, more power to them.

    There are more women playing these days indeed, but in my immediate reality they don't surpass men. And the big majority of women may not even know how to hold a guitar let alone play it.

    Now for the sake of civility I'll leave this aside. I've made my defense in that I was accused of being sexist and I'm not one bit.

    The statistics of who plays or doesn't play can be discussed as much as anyone pleases, but it's not sexist to state that, as per my opinion, more men play guitar than women, and that, as per the definition of norm, it's less normal that a woman may take an interest in guitar playing.

    Whoever wants to can go back to my initial comment and interpret it as they wish. I was addressing the OP.

    Have a nice day everybody. I'm over there beating my wife.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  16. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Afflicted

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    I like the way you're considering the audience. My experience is that if it's a jam-band scene or an outdoor event where lots of stuff is going on and the music really is a sort of backdrop, then jamming can be great and appropriate -- not a filler. Of course, most players do not have the musical creativity to really jam, and noodling around is just practicing in public and not appreciated. I have excellent response to leads and solos in almost every situation where I play, but while I am musical, creative, and proficient, the main thing is that I fit the song and crowd, have the right volume and tone, and read the situation well. I will often get strong audience response and obvious encouragement for another verse and or chorus, and so these breaks are sometimes extended, but I never, ever do so just because I want to, or to see what I might come up with. So while I love to jam and occasionally will get a jam band situation, I consider what I play to always be song-based and then to become a fill --> a lead or break --> an extended solo "depending." I always err on the side of conciseness. I would rather have someone say "wish you had played more of that" than "wow -- that was a long one."
     
  17. graybeard65

    graybeard65 Tele-Meister

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    IMHO, it depends on the venue, the band, and the crowd - there isn't an all-purpose answer. If it's my band, I have always made the argument that no one goes to see a cover band to hear them jam - play the song. If it's the right venue and the right band, have a little fun - BUT - self-indulgent solos have me saying "check please!", I cannot get out the door fast enough.
     
  18. LunarSlingShot

    LunarSlingShot Tele-Meister

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    Here is an example. We do the song Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress. The guys say, "hey man you should solo the end of the song and we will jam for a couple minutes". So I do, even if I really am not super comfortable improvising. I'm just not that great at it.

    To preface:

    Although I'm fairly confident playing out in front of people live. It SCARES ME TO DEATH to post any sort of playing here. There are so many great guitar players on this forum, I seem like even more of an amateur.

    I'm obviously the one with the telecaster.... :)


    ""
     
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  19. BuckSatan

    BuckSatan Tele-Meister

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    Never mind the facts, I've made up my mind already.
     
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  20. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Rock and roll is historically very sexist, and male dominated. Most forms of rock marketed to males, and that continues to be the main audiences of rock styles. That guitar buyers are becoming far more diverse than in years past (looking at you, Gibson), is a wonderful thing for the guitar market and music in general.

    What that doesn't mean, IMO, is that women in general are as interested in rock gods with extended solos and jams as their male peers are or have historically been. That is not a sexist statement. It's a logically defensible argument, based on history of other social changes brought about by women breaking other glass ceilings.

    The more women become part of the fabric of popular music, expect to see less and less of male stereotypes of guitar players, (i.e rock gods). To me that means less rock jamming and noodling as show, and more integration of other genres and guitar roles within music, including rock.

    https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bits...019685999501900104.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
     
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