Jaguar/Jazzmaster Cavity/Hole Depths

[017_017]

Hello,

I was wondering whether anyone could confirm the following cavity/hole depths for the Jaguar and/or Jazzmaster (Jaguar body shown):

image removed


A
Preset Control Cavity (Jazzmaster) and Rhythm Control Cavity (Jaguar)
I have seen three depths mentioned: 1", 1-1/8" and 1-3/16". If I remember correctly, Ron Kirn has mentioned this cavity is 1-3/16" deep on this forum (in reference to the Jazzmaster), but I believe the photos of both his Jaguar and Jazzmaster templates on ebay show it to be 1-1/8".

B
Jaguar Pickup Cavity
I am almost 100% certain this cavity is 9/16" (same depth as the neck pocket), but I vaguely remember hearing it mentioned as 5/8" or 19/32".

C
Jaguar Mute Plunger Hole
I presume it is 1-3/8" deep?

D
Thimble Holes
This is the most confusing for me. I've seen three depths mentioned: 1-1/8", 1-3/16" and 1-1/4". However, the part of the thimble that sits in the hole only measures 13/16" long. I understand drilling the holes slightly deeper to allow the thimbles to seat against the body properly, but is there a reason why they are generally drilled 5/16" to 3/8" (approx. 8mm - 10mm) deeper than what appears necessary? Are they tone chambers?

Yes, I know I'm splitting split hairs in the grand scheme of things, but I have an interest in understanding what the correct design dimensions are for these machines, even if a 1/16" here and there won't make any practical difference.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Ronkirn]

A: 1 1/8
B: generally ½ but may depend on the pups you will use
C: can't recall.. I haven't installed a mute in so long.. it's a "dead" feature, no one really uses ;em ay more.. kinda like showing up to a "fire fight" in Mosul with a Powder horn...
D: 1 ⅛ but depends on the "cups" you will be using, the originals rested against the flange against the top surface of the guitar, but if you wanna cut ;em so the cup sits on the bottom of the hole, nada biggie either, and neither will offer any gain/loss in the voice department..

The other electronics routs, 1 3/8

none of this is critical, all ya want is for whatever, to fit in the hole..

Ron Kirn

 

[Tervo]

A: 1 1/8
none of this is critical, all ya want is for whatever, to fit in the hole..
Ron Kirn

Suppose that is what all of us all wish...

-Tervo

 

[NNtwanger]

A: 1 1/8
B: generally ½ but may depend on the pups you will use
C: can't recall.. I haven't installed a mute in so long.. it's a "dead" feature, no one really uses ;em ay more.. kinda like showing up to a "fire fight" in Mosul with a Powerhorn...
D: 1 ⅛ but depends on the "cups" you will be using, the originals rested against the flange against the top surface of the guitar, but if you wanna cut ;em so the cup sits on the bottom of the hole, nada biggie either, and neither will offer any gain/loss in the voice department..

The other electronics routs, 1 3/8

none of this is critical, all ya want is for whatever, to fit in the hole..

Ron Kirn

All said above by ronkirn is pretty much what I have measured from my Cochlea jazzmaster body but they angle the neck pocket so I'm not sure if that matters. My pickup pockets seem to be the same angle as the neck pocket but the deepest part is right at half inch. The pickups have springs though. I had just happen to take it apart to clean out since its been ridden hard for about a year now. I play out about twice a week so I felt like a detailing couldn't hurt. I don't know if it's this guitar or this design but my JM is hands down the best guitar I've ever played.

 

[017_017]

Just for reference/context, I managed find the information (image) I was referring to:

From here: http://www.tdpri.com/threads/jazzmaster-question.170116/

A: 1 1/8

Is this in regards to the Jaguar only, or Jazzmaster too? I'd assume that because they both pack the same hardware in this cavity, they should both be the same.

B: generally ½ but may depend on the pups you will use

This is the first I've heard 1/2" for the Jaguar pickup cavity. A lot of people on a certain offset guitar forum claim it's 9/16" (or 14mm), but I guess this could just be a case of misinformation spreading like wildfire.

Regarding pickups, I'll be using Fender's Pure Vintage Jaguar and Jazzmaster set with Fender foam "springs".

C: can't recall.. I haven't installed a mute in so long.. it's a "dead" feature, no one really uses ;em ay more.. kinda like showing up to a "fire fight" in Mosul with a Powder horn...

I really have no plans to install the mute; it's just out of curiosity. I've finally got around to measuring the spring and plunger, and it is roughly 1-3/8" with the spring under no compression. Apparently the plunger thing should sit flush with the surface, so 1-3/8" appears to be more or less correct.

D: 1 ⅛ but depends on the "cups" you will be using, the originals rested against the flange against the top surface of the guitar, but if you wanna cut ;em so the cup sits on the bottom of the hole, nada biggie either, and neither will offer any gain/loss in the voice department..

The thimble/cups are the most recent/newest ones.

All said above by ronkirn is pretty much what I have measured from my Cochlea jazzmaster body but they angle the neck pocket so I'm not sure if that matters. My pickup pockets seem to be the same angle as the neck pocket but the deepest part is right at half inch. The pickups have springs though. I had just happen to take it apart to clean out since its been ridden hard for about a year now. I play out about twice a week so I felt like a detailing couldn't hurt. I don't know if it's this guitar or this design but my JM is hands down the best guitar I've ever played.

The angled neck pocket thing almost slipped my mind, as I believe it was general practice to shim the heel instead. The most common neck pocket depth I've heard is 9/16" (non-angled). Is that the correct depth?

Many thanks to everyone.

 

[Cat MacKinnon]

The control cavities in my JM appear to be the same depth that a Strat would have, although I can't take either apart at the moment to confirm. I'd bet money that Ron is right though, knowing how much he knows about that sort of thing!

As for the thimble depth, I think Ron will probably agree that Fender didn't put much more thought into it than, "Well, just make 'em deep enough so the thimble fits, but don't blow out the back of the guitar." If I were drilling them I'd try to match the depth of the thimble as close as possible, but because the thimbles have a lip it's not super-critical. If you're going to run your ground wire to the thimble, you'll want to get the depth to match better so you get good contact; if you're going to mash the bridge ground wire under the trem plate instead, you can ignore that. I'd be more concerned with getting the thimble holes the right diameter than anything else.

I can't measure the pickup route depth right now, but something in the 1/2" neighborhood sounds right. 9/16" isn't that much deeper, and 1/16" variance for something like that is probably well within Fender's manufacturing spec anyway. I'd probably even err on the side of slightly deeper, because you can always stick a little more foam under the pickups if necessary. If you cut them too shallow, you'll have to take a router to them a second time. But either 1/2" or 9/16" should be fine.

 

[Ronkirn]

Fender didn't put much more thought into it than

Correct....

First remember, Leo's Fender and the Fender of today are as different as Ford today and Ford in 1950...

Leo's minds set was.. if it works, it's good to go.... if it fits, it's correct.

This insane pursuit of dimensional perfection today, based of guitars made in the 50's and 60's is laughable.. precision did not exist back then. So if you have specs from an example of one of those guitars and are duplicating it, all you are doing is duplicating that ONE guitar... the very next one to roll down the line back then, almost certainly would have different specs somewhere on the body.

Further, when you see specs listed of a specific year...it's just a random coincidence that it fell in THAT specific year... Leo did not shut down production on December 31 of a given year to retool so that "new model" designs could begin on January the first....

When something new was introduced, say going from a 8 screw pick-guard to an 11 . it was done as attrition consumed the previous design, then the new was introduced... timing was a function of convenience not of chronology.

The above specs were taken directly for a 60's JM Body... but it was just ONE body form that era...

rk

 

[cabra velha]

This insane pursuit of dimensional perfection today, based of guitars made in the 50's and 60's is laughable.. precision did not exist back then.

rk

yes.

 

[Captain Nutslot]

U may need to set up an account at offset guitars to view this link... Not sure

http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7827

 

[Ronkirn]

re: that link.. that '66 is measured after being refinished... and not yet assembled... unless someone has figured out how to get a screw in a screw hole that's coated with paint, without disturbing the paint... so. .

we don't know how thick the finish is, or if the previous finish was removed, and IF removed was is done chemically, leaving the wood in tact, or was it unceremoniously sanded, removing Lord knows how much wood...

rk

 

[Jfellows]

These are the specs I used on my recent Jag/Jazz combo build. Worked just fine, no issues with depths/fitting of components. Culled this from OSG.


Body thickness - 1 5/8"
Thimble hole depth - 1 3/16"
Trem cavity - 1 3/8"
Rhythm cavity – 1-3/16"
Lead cavity / Lower control - 1 3/8"
Jaguar Upper switch cavity – 1-3/8
Jazzmaster Pickup cavities - 3/8"
Neck pocket - 9/16"
Roundover radius is 7/16"

 

[017_017]

Ron's comments perfectly illustrate why I'm looking for design dimensions, not measured from an "as-built" example. But unless someone gets to delve into the Fender archive, measuring is as close as we're going to get (however imprecise and undesirable that may be).

I've seen the green '66 Jaguar OSG thread, and those depths all seem to match most of the imperial ones I've managed to find. But on the other hand, those imperial measurements could have been converted from those. And if they're not right due to a sanded body, super thick paint job, etc...

As Ron stated about the potential issues measuring that '66, the only dimension that doesn't appear to play nice is the pickup cavity. At 15mm, it's quite a bit deeper than Ron's quoted depth of 1/2" (12.7mm).

Anyway, here's where we're at thus far:

Jaguar Cavities
Neck Pocket - 9/16" (non-angled)
Pickup - 1/2"
Rhythm Control - 1-1/8" or 1-3/16"
Master Control - 1-3/8"
Pickup Switch - 1-3/8"
Tremolo - 1-3/8"
Thimbles - 13/16", or 1", or 1-1/8", or 1-3/16", or 1-3/8" (or whatever's deep enough to clear the thimble barrel without blowing out the back of the body)

Jazzmaster Cavities
Neck Pocket - 9/16" (non-angled)
Pickup - 3/8"
Preset Control - 1-1/8" or 1-3/16"
Master Control - 1-3/8"
Tremolo - 1-3/8"
Thimbles - 13/16", or 1", or 1-1/8", or 1-3/16", or 1-3/8" (or whatever's deep enough to clear the thimble barrel without blowing out the back of the body)

The ones in red are the most critical ones. Ron, can you confirm one final time that they are correct?

Thanks again for everyone's comments.