I'VE BEEN ASKED TO DO A GIG AND HAVE A TECHNICAL QUESTION.

Kandinskyesque

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A gig I've done before pre-plague has come again.

I'll be bringing in 2023 with a female new agey folk singer/guitarist from Denmark, at a hippy/new agey Shamanic/yoga retreat that my friend owns a few miles away.

I played at it before in 2017/18 and 2018/19 and it's a good night and a far cry from how I used to bring in the new year playing hairy arsed rock to drunks in pubs with no windows.

The night starts with about 70-100 people from all corners of the globe (about 90% female) walking on our bare feet across red hot coals several times for an hour or two.
There are then some weird Shamanic ceremonies that I'm quite happy to watch from the side-lines and the evening finishes on the gig which is 11pm-1am continuously as the new year begins.

The 'band' comprises the singer/guitarist, a drummer playing tabla/hand drums/middle eastern percussion and myself providing some guitar with some synth, strings and sitar sounds through my guitar synth.

The technical question I have is that this year in the hall we play, we are going to be in the centre, with the audience/participants in a circle around us. I'll be plugged into my guitar synth (Roland GR55) from my Godin with the 13-pin cable and can run the synth on a battery pack.
However, I need to find a way to get a line level stereo signal wirelessly to the mixing desk at the back of the hall.

Would a couple of guitar wireless units do it or will I need a more specific wireless unit for line level stereo signals?

Any suggestions or expertise would be welcome.
 

PhoenixBill

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Amazon does sell a stereo wireless unit. I recall looking a few months ago. But I didn’t buy it so I don’t know if it can output line-level, worst case then you might need a DI box to get enough gain.
 

Junkyard Dog

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The 'band' comprises the singer/guitarist, a drummer playing tabla/hand drums/middle eastern percussion and myself providing some guitar with some synth, strings and sitar sounds through my guitar synth.

I need to find a way to get a line level stereo signal wirelessly to the mixing desk at the back of the hall.

Hi kandinskyesque. Just a question to clarify. When you say you need get a line level stereo signal to the mixing desk, I am assuming that is just YOUR instrument...yes/no? What are the other players doing? Do they also have to provide a wireless solution for this? If so, then you may need to coordinate wireless equipment with them to avoid interference.
 

Kandinskyesque

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Hi kandinskyesque. Just a question to clarify. When you say you need get a line level stereo signal to the mixing desk, I am assuming that is just YOUR instrument...yes/no? What are the other players doing? Do they also have to provide a wireless solution for this? If so, then you may need to coordinate wireless equipment with them to avoid interference.
My instrument only, but the singer guitarist uses a headset mic and one of those Xvive guitar wireless jacks both of her signals operate on the 2.4GHz waveband.
There is no Wi-Fi or mobiles in the hall so she's fine for avoiding interference.
The desk is about 12-15 feet away with about 2 rows of moving/dancing bodies between us and the desk.

(Edit added)
**I'm looking to run a wireless stereo signal from my guitar synth outputs to 2 channels in the mixing desk.
I'm wondering if those Tx/Rx units for desk outputs to powered speakers would work or if there's something more specific for the job. **

It's possible I could raise the receiver's antenna above head height to get a clear(ish) line of sight.
 
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Kandinskyesque

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90% new agey female audience?
Don't take your significant other and and be happy!
My daughter is a holistic massage therapist/practitioner and part of that hippy, new agey tribe.
She'll be there while my wife watches the grandkids.
My philandering days are but a distant memory way back in the 1980s.

I might see if I can get one of those 24hr divorces just for the event though.
I'm not sure if the wife will agree, she's the big earner so half of her assets are about 5 times my entire whole.
 

uriah1

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Still don’t see the outbound stereo feed. unless synth . I don’t think another xvive work since you would be bumping heads and it maxed out at 3 I think in freq
 

Junkyard Dog

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My instrument only, but the singer guitarist uses a headset mic and one of those Xvive guitar wireless jacks both of her signals operate on the 2.4GHz waveband. There is no Wi-Fi or mobiles in the hall so she's fine for avoiding interference.

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, but when I warned about avoiding interference, I didn't mean from Wi-Fi or mobile devices, but actually potential interference from wireless systems that the other performers in the band may be using.
 

Kandinskyesque

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, but when I warned about avoiding interference, I didn't mean from Wi-Fi or mobile devices, but actually potential interference from wireless systems that the other performers in the band may be using.
There will be 2 of us producing 2 signals each: 4 in total.
The singer/guitarist; voice plus guitar on 2.5 GHz bandwidth.
Myself with a left and right output from my guitar synth (GR55) to the desk.

Am I better sticking with RF signals if there are already two 2.5 GHz signals.

Is using two of these units which is also 2.5GHz possible.
(Transmitter and Receiver)...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DW20T--klark-teknik-dw-20t-stereo-wireless-audio-transmitter

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DW20R--klark-teknik-dw-20r-stereo-wireless-audio-receiver

...or will the 2.5 GHz bandwidth already be too busy?
 

drumtime

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1667398940082.png
Lekato 5.8 Gh.. Get out of the 2.5 Gh band altogether. Roughly the same price. I'm sure other brands offer similar
 

PhoenixBill

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View attachment 1046710 Lekato 5.8 Gh.. Get out of the 2.5 Gh band altogether. Roughly the same price. I'm sure other brands offer similar
That might be the brand that also offered a stereo version. (I have an Ovation VXT solidbody that can output a stereo signal, one side is from the humbuckers that would normally go to your amp, the other is the acoustic signal that sounds good into the PA. So I would’ve used the stereo transmitter and paired it with two stereo receivers for a totally wireless connection.)
 

Red Ryder

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A gig I've done before pre-plague has come again.

I'll be bringing in 2023 with a female new agey folk singer/guitarist from Denmark, at a hippy/new agey Shamanic/yoga retreat that my friend owns a few miles away.

I played at it before in 2017/18 and 2018/19 and it's a good night and a far cry from how I used to bring in the new year playing hairy arsed rock to drunks in pubs with no windows.

The night starts with about 70-100 people from all corners of the globe (about 90% female) walking on our bare feet across red hot coals several times for an hour or two.
There are then some weird Shamanic ceremonies that I'm quite happy to watch from the side-lines and the evening finishes on the gig which is 11pm-1am continuously as the new year begins.

The 'band' comprises the singer/guitarist, a drummer playing tabla/hand drums/middle eastern percussion and myself providing some guitar with some synth, strings and sitar sounds through my guitar synth.

The technical question I have is that this year in the hall we play, we are going to be in the centre, with the audience/participants in a circle around us. I'll be plugged into my guitar synth (Roland GR55) from my Godin with the 13-pin cable and can run the synth on a battery pack.
However, I need to find a way to get a line level stereo signal wirelessly to the mixing desk at the back of the hall.

Would a couple of guitar wireless units do it or will I need a more specific wireless unit for line level stereo signals?

Any suggestions or expertise would be welcome.
Avoid those weirdos, the next thing ya know they'll be wanting you to help shave a whale dressed only in a speedo and cowboy boots.
 

Kandinskyesque

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They're running a stereo mix? That is a very rare thing in sound reinforcement because it creates unbalanced sound in the room and listeners will hear more of one side than the other.

Also, many modern boards are Bluetooth enabled, so:

www.amazon.com/bitine-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-Headphone/dp/B09QGPQW3H/ref=asc_df_B09QGPQW3H/
The pa is a permanent install, and it's set up in stereo.
It's mainly used for music from a DJ console and the odd solo vocal/acoustic guitar act.

On the night the vocals and guitar will be right down the middle, the percussion is acoustic, so it's only my guitar synth using the stereo field.

I'm sure the sound will be fine for what kind of gig it is.
My main problem is I have to be cable free between the centre of the room where we are and the desk at the back.

The space between me and them is where the audience are doing their hippy dancing stuff.
 

chris m.

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I wonder from an audience perspective whether having a stereo output makes sense. It might be better to be mono for the reasons mentioned above. In which case going mono makes it much easier to solve the problem. Another approach if you really think stereo FOH output makes sense would be to just use two mono solutions, one for left and one for right.
 

Ben Harmless

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, but when I warned about avoiding interference, I didn't mean from Wi-Fi or mobile devices, but actually potential interference from wireless systems that the other performers in the band may be using.
I would be very concerned about this issue. Multiple wireless signals in a single venue are a tricky thing to manage these days, and are often why you see larger acts have very expensive racks full of gear for the purpose. Using cheap units from Amazon is a gamble at best, and know that no radio transmitter is truly narrow-band when you're close to it. Frequency scatter is huge. That said, none of this means that one shouldn't try it, but it does mean that there should be a backup plan. Bring cables and maybe think about hiding them under a nice mat or something. Maybe get one of those retro lamp cords with the jacket that looks like rope and use that to disguise the lines. Get extra long, white cables and drape them in patterns to become part of the decor. Run them straight up to the ceiling and wrap some vines around them. Whatever works.

They're running a stereo mix? That is a very rare thing in sound reinforcement because it creates unbalanced sound in the room and listeners will hear more of one side than the other.

I've lost track of how many times I've tried to explain this to people, but I've also stopped that practice because it's not actually true for most venues under say, 1,500 seats - which is most venues. This is sadly because most such venues are low-margin, and the people setting up those systems aren't exactly the highly-skilled types, so if stereo is an option, they think it's the way you're supposed to go. You're right though, Peegoo - this is an important consideration regardless of people being oblivious. I used to have some pretty prominent artists demand that we pan their piano mics hard right and left in a house where the audience was sitting right up on the mains, and myself and my partner would just smile and nod and bring them back together when no one was looking.

In this particular situation however, if I'm picturing the venue accurately, I think it's one of those scenarios where it would actually cool to have say, 7.1 surround and mess with bringing in synth pads from all corners of the room.

So yeah, all of this is to say: Have a backup plan, and I'm sorry I won't be able to see this. This old punk rocker always likes to experience the even-weirder side of things, and I myself experiment with ambient music sometimes, but don't tell anyone.
 

chris m.

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I'm trying to picture this gig with the band in the center and the audience in a circle around it. Might it make more sense to have about 4 mains, or maybe 3 if they are wide-spread line array types like the Bose or JBLs, all in the center of the room? Picture the mains put on a circle, at either 0, 90, 180, 270 degrees, or at 0, 120, 240 degrees. They could be on stands, up pretty high. That way the music is emanating from where the musicians are, rather than from one side of the space, and so it might seem more natural and organic. If you did this then all wires could remain in the center and not have to cross any dancing areas.

At first I was picturing the mains outboard of the musicians, but you could possibly even put these mains in the exact center of the room with musicians and audience outboard from that center point. Then the mains would also be your monitors. This can work fine with the Bose style line array systems and with good feedback management techniques, whether automated or by manual "ringing out" the EQ.

This also begs the question of which way the musicians will even face. Will you turn around regularly? Or will the dancers be moving around the circle? It wouldn't be very nice if half the audience only ever sees your backside.

Unless there is an outlet or two in the floor in the center of the room, there would still be the issue of sending at least one power supply cord to the room's center. Maybe that could be done via the ceiling, however.
 

teleteej

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If it's a one-of gig, perhaps a quality pro sound rental unit would do it? Is there a local hire available? Shure's SLX series of wireless transmitters are in the middle of their product line, provide excellent quality, and can handle either line or mic level inputs. It sounds like you just need four channels of UHF with one wireless mic for the singer and three instrument/line level belt packs with appropriate connections for the instrument. Why bother buying if all you need to do is rent for the night?
 

Kandinskyesque

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This also begs the question of which way the musicians will even face. Will you turn around regularly? Or will the dancers be moving around the circle? It wouldn't be very nice if half the audience only ever sees your backside.
The singer tends to wander around, and a few of the songs have audience participation and the audience tend to move around in a circle.
(Think crystal bothering new age holistic therapists high on mung beans and kale smoothies.)

Nobody is really looking at me or the percussion player and they'll only see my backside if I birl around too quickly and my kilt flies up Marlynn style.
It's not a loud gig so there's not much to worry about in the way of feedback.

There are no power outlets in the centre of the hall and being the type of gig that it is, I'm likely to be sharing a stage space with flowers, candles and those smelly sticks that hippies burn, so I'm sure they won't be keen on electrical stuff "bursting their karma".

I have a couple of those Bose L1 model 2s and you've piqued an idea that bringing them along and setting them up in opposite corners of the room might make the sound a bit more immersive.
 




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