Its crazy to me what boutique companies will charge...

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by caspersvapors, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Haha I bought a Tweed Deluxe about when that GP story came out.
    Might have been a little earlier as Neil was still cool and pop then.
    I don't see a reference to the PT being changed, only to rebiasing for 6L6.
    In other interviews with Neil he describes that 5e3 as being not like others he tried, and doesn't say he had it modded or hot rodded.
    Using the 6L6 might have been an attempt to get more clarity, not more dirt or more gain.
    Anyhow, the $2900 amp in question oughtta be something the maker put his own spin on?
    Hard to say...
     
  2. Les H

    Les H Tele-Meister

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    It's even crazier what people will pay.

    Most times it's just a copy of a one time mass produced amp. That's what gets me.
     
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  3. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Tele-Holic

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    I think the price is reasonable and honestly expected much more. This is an art piece that would complement someone's Sante Fe style mountain home. This is the Coach handbag of amps (or at least that's what they want you to think).
     
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  4. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  5. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    the COOLEST option of the 5E3 tweed deluxe; is the 4 inputs/dual channels

    And still; those retards - even at $3K - found a way to screw with it
     
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  6. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

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    They're made in LA so there's high overhead right there. There's a lot of one off bits to it. It's as much of an art piece as it is an amp. So there's some collector value right there. I won't even get into the business side that others have mentioned.

    If you don't appreciate the value, don't buy it.
     
  7. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Most techs I know charge $75/hour bench time (plus parts cost, shipping, and in some cases - especially with obscure vintage units - R&D time.) that is just to keep the doors open (i.e. business operation costs), the lights on, and pay themselves just enough for apartment rent, food and a used car. Rarely they bank a little savings. Bt they operate at just above the poverty line.

    I'm trying to convince most of the techs I work with to RAISE their rates so they can have a half-decent quality of life. And most small production amp and guitar makers are in the same boat.

    The amps in question here are not clones of 5E3's. If modified amps are done properly the mods are not just "tacked on" - there's design/engineering and prototype construction time/parts to facto into each unit's cost accounting total - which adds to the already skewed "burden per unit".

    Respectfully, if you don't know what "burden" is and how much higher it is per unit in small shop you don't understand cost accounting. Don't bother to try to debate the selling price, because there's a lack of understanding of how basic unit cost is determined.

    That's completely irrelevant. You can't compare costs of producing one-off products in small shops with cheap production line items. See "burden" above.
     
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  8. mherrcat

    mherrcat Tele-Holic

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    I used to think I wanted to use some fabric like that on an amp. Then discovered it isn't very acoustically transparent...
     
  9. TheDams

    TheDams Tele-Meister

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    :eek::eek::confused::confused:
     
  10. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    i was actually arguing in favor of small builders charging more. i think you misread my intent. i've done a lot of freelance work on and off over the years and i know why i need to charge more by the hour than i'd be asking for at a job with a set schedule and a boss.
     
  11. tubedood

    tubedood Tele-Meister

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    Silverface (as well as all of you) does add some great points to ponder on here.

    The cost of the business must drive that price up a lot.
    I spent $350 in parts for my 5F2-A build, but most of the design was already inked out by some great thinkers of yesteryear. The few mods I did were talked about and suggestions offered by some sharp fellas that have done these amps for years. I didn't tax my brain much so that made it easier to come up with a nice finished product. Just not too sure how much R&D cost I would hand off to the consumer I guess if I did have to make something from scratch?

    I also didn't worry about the rent for a shop charged by the square foot or the cost of making sure that finished product has some legal support should someone play it in the shower.

    I am sure it is a lot more involved to actually do this as a living than at the hobbyist level, in ways I couldn't really expect.
     
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  12. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    that's part of why setting up an llc is important.
     
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  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Okay...is there a member other than myself here named “Wally” who has to use a user name that does no identify hem as Wally? No problem with that, but I had to back up from your post to see if I had posted in this thread......before this one. I had not...so...??? Who is this other Wally? Poor guy....
    Anyway, that is not a clone. Also, there have been a couple of references in this thread and o the boutique builder using mods ‘lifted’ from Rob Robinettes site. Two observations to be made with all due respect to Rob. First, you cannot ‘lift’...or steal in other words....that which has been made public knowledge. Rob has done a fair job of illuminating some subjects for some people. Secondly, I do believe that what you can find on Rob’s site can be found in other places...and has been known to amp techs for a long time. No one is stealing or lifting from Rob, imho and ime.
    The deal is that a recipe is not the final Step in building an amp. Just as some people can take a recipe for a cake and turn out a masterpiece, others can take the same recipe and turn out a pile of wasted ingredients. My take on boutique amps is that IF one plays on one of them and has the developed experience of hearing what is there, then one can make an informed decision as to what they think of it. I have played a boutique amp that has one preamp ‘lifted’ from Leo’s 5aE3 and the second preamp ‘lifted’ from Leo’s AB763 BF circuit. The output section and reverb are Ar also ‘lifted’ fro: those designs..respectively. The trem is an adaptation of a bias vary circuit that was first used in the ‘50’s. There is very little that is NEW in the world of electronic circuits. There is something new when a builder knows how to put elements together in such a way as to produce something that is better than any of the sources of the inspiration were. That is what that boutique amp was.....magnificent..and worth every dollar of the purchase price, imho.
    On the other hand, I have had to straighten out an amp that was built on the simple and straightforward 5E3 circuit. Whoever put it together did not understand what they were dealing with, and it was unusable....and it was a PCB kit!!! They still did not get it correct!
    I have worked on boutique ‘teles’ that bring big dollars and we’re incapable of truly making music as they were when they left the builder. It is interesting to watch the reaction of people who paid big bucks for bolt together pieces of wood with inexpensive finishes on them, thought they had a great guitar, and then feel and hear that same instrument after it had been made correct! It reminds one of the prehistoric primates standing in front of that monolith in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Revelation time!
     
  14. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    True that!:D:D:D:D


    yourself and Rob are and increadable resource to have on this site the knowledge base is fantastic , like Ron Kirn on guitar building , you guys ar a mark above!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  15. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Meister

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    I get it, they're producing in smaller numbers and need to make more per unit to stay profitable. And someone out there will pay $3K for an amp that looks cool. I personally think the bubble for this kind of thing is about to bust (if it hasn't already). On my local CL, I see the same "high-end" items sitting on there for a year unsold. There are a couple Zen drive pedals a guy has been trying to sell for almost a year now, as well as a 50s Gretsch amp. I could be mis-remembering, but it seems like that stuff would have sold pretty well a couple years ago.
     
  16. Alter

    Alter Tele-Meister

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    That's one basic reason that turned me away from boutique stuff, after owning a couple of amps and a few guitars. They can't beat the big guys experience. They other reason was "sonic heritage" if you can call it that, the one thing boutique builders don't have, history in music being made with their gear (and how it translates to my perception of "good sound").
     
  17. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    24track....you are too kind.
     
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  18. aging_rocker

    aging_rocker Tele-Meister

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    Yep, to try and make any money as a 'small-scale' builder of amps/pedals/guitars/widgets, you end up having to charge a lot for your products. The 'economies of scale' just don't kick in until you get to a certain turnover, and most boutique builders never get that far. You chase a relatively small market which is (mostly) already saturated.

    It's a shame, but there you go.
     
  19. keithb7

    keithb7 Friend of Leo's

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    Solid post @Wally! Yet again. ;)

    I’m staying away from saying much about the Boo-tique $3000 USD amp.....Moving on.

    How many SilverFace Twin Reverbs, Quad Reverbs and Super-Six amps could a guy get for $3K USD? Probably 6 or 7 maybe. Dollar for dollar that little thing with the mexican blanket on it might look pityful beside the stack of SF amps. Not unlike a Chihua next to six Bullmastifs. Lol.

    Whatever. Choose to spend your money as you see fit. :)
     
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  20. LudwigvonBirk

    LudwigvonBirk Tele-Holic

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    Yeah hmmm.

    Apparently I predited your post somehow (and yo I was right about it being solid! :lol:)

    Also, Siverface's comments were also solid.
     
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