Is this where P&W is now?

Discussion in 'Worship Service Players' started by Tele-beeb, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,953
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    Orygun
    Do you use the other modes to? Like Dorian, Phrygian, and Mixolydian .... Maybe even harmonic minor now and again?
     
    CapnCrunch likes this.
  2. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,953
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    Orygun
    This issue is a whole different struggle in an Anglican tradition church. There is a lexicon that lays out 4 scriptures every Sunday. All the music and the sermon is supposed to support the message that emerges from the scriptures...

    Is there still a long sermon in most of these P&W services? Seems to me that the pastor's message should dictate a lot of the mood of the music.
     
    Danjabellza likes this.
  3. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    1,269
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Location:
    Birmingham Alabama
    Absolutely AGREE!! that is why i find much more reality in listening to Christian music like THIS than modern worship!!


    First time I heard this I was absolutely broken!! Truth here in the extreme but few have the GUTS to write and sing THIS reality about the world we now live in!!
     
    Boltneck and soundchaser59 like this.
  4. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,697
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, USA
    I've never listened to Theocracy. Not my normal, but interesting. I like the guitar work too.
     
    soundchaser59 likes this.
  5. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    1,269
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Location:
    Birmingham Alabama
    Matt Smith the driving force behind the band is a monster. His lyrics REALLY speak to me and he is also a very good guitarist and singer.
    Here are 2 songs both off the As The World Bleeds CD that REALLY speak to me.
    Gift Of Music in particular really speaks to the vision I have of the power of not just Music but the arts to spread the gospel.

    This one I AM is truly a Worship song and I would love to use it in Church but what Church band could pull it off?

    Matt an acoustic and magic!
     
    soundchaser59 likes this.
  6. SnowStorm

    SnowStorm Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    207
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    This is an issue that is hitting many churches in our area too. We just moved to a new congregation after 10 year and find that there is a very noticeable rut that groups get into. Some people are willing/able to change and then there are those who just refuse and keep doing the same old stuff. There is a lady who plays the acoustic guitar pretty well, but she loses the beat at the end of every measure (rushing the rhythm just slightly) and this drives me bonkers. Her group plays every other week and I was asked to play drums a couple of times - it didn't go well. They like the idea of a drummer, as long as you can't hear him (yes they did put towels over the toms and scolded me for taking the towels off). I've found it is often easier for a new person to start over or start a new group at a congregation like this then to try and change the existing groups. I hope your experience goes well and less "folksy".
     
    mRtINY and Danjabellza like this.
  7. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,697
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, USA
    From a practical perspective, it is hard for one person to come into a band setting and communicate to the players exactly what the musical vision is. In other words to tell the piano player specifically how to play, and to be able to then tell the drummer exactly what they want, and then the bass and then the guitar etc. etc. Very few people have the ability to actually direct all of the instruments, so the group falls back on written scores or the style that they have become used to in their church context.

    In my experience, the "church vocals" are one of the most difficult things to change, and they infect any arrangement you try to put together. No matter how modern or contemporary it is, just inject that 70's style multi part church vocal harmony into it and it is instantly transformed into an old school "church" song. Just thinking about it totally grosses me out...……

    We have a couple of old folks who actually make a show of putting their fingers in their ears whenever they can hear the drums or the electric guitar, so it's not just the musicians who have a resistance to change.
     
    GoldieLocks likes this.
  8. Jhengsman

    Jhengsman Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    629
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I would say most Evangelical churches have a long sermon, 30 minutes or more and ideally if the teaching elder has set his subject in time for the worship team to learn songs related to the focus on that topic then it informs the music choices. However many senior pastors are almost as improvisational as the musicians and may decide the morning of the service instead of staying with a teaching series on x that he needs to teach on y today.

    Those working with a choir have the additional limiting factor of the mass choir needing to set parts and thus need more rehearsal time then hear the song try it during the sound check and go in the service that more compact and experienced praise and worship teams are able to do.
     
  9. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,953
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    Orygun
    We've run into a bit of this with our latest priest. She changes "tracks" (one of two that you're supposed to stick with) if there is a scripture she wants to expound on. And, sometimes she wan't to add a special theme, like Celtic, Reggae, or 60's music - and does it on short notice....

    It's tough all over, but some musicians have it tougher.
     
  10. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    899
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Location:
    Up The Creek
    Many churches feel obligated to remind us every week how desperate, wretched, evil, broken and hopeless we are. After about 30 years of that, we finally found a church that was always focused on happy, joyful, forgiven, renewed, vibrant you-can-do-this realistic optimism. That lasted about 5 years, then the WL and the Creative Artistic Director both left. Now after a few years of a new WL it's back to reminding us every week how desperate, wretched, evil, broken and hopeless we are.
     
    Tele-beeb likes this.
  11. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,608
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Location:
    York PA
    sad huh..cause the true message is hope..the blessed Hope !!
     
    soundchaser59 likes this.
  12. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    899
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Location:
    Up The Creek
    WOW! Awesome!
     
    Ascension likes this.
  13. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    1,269
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Location:
    Birmingham Alabama
    Feel you in a BIG way here!! Am working with a bunch now that are like this. Everything gets that harmony stuff and it dates the heck out of everything. Also a couple just can NOT get the feel of a more rock oriented worship song so they always fight the band in the cadence.
     
  14. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,697
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, USA
    Yep. I played with two female lead vocalists last weekend, and am meeting with the worship pastor to tell him I don't want to play on weeks where they sing again. The one vocalist ad libbed vocally over every break, including the pre established instrumental solo spots, even after being asked not to. And what's more she did it in that warbly old school church vibrato. I almost puked on stage...…… I've come to the conclusion that there are very few vocalists who came up in the church that can re-train their ears, and develop a different style.
     
    GoldieLocks likes this.
  15. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,608
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Location:
    York PA
    always wondering why i can play a 2,000 seat event with original music and bond with many dif bands on the event in all genres but in church..the place where..putting others first and sharing is supposed to be the top agenda..why is the music in this modern era. the so called invented but really non existent genre but made up called P&W....so..ummm...selfish....
     
    mRtINY likes this.
  16. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,697
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, USA
    That's an insightful observation.
     
    bftfender likes this.
  17. mRtINY

    mRtINY Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,953
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    Orygun

    Patty LaBelle syndrome....
     
  18. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,608
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Location:
    York PA
  19. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,150
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    It gets to me when I have to lead like I did the past 2 Sundays.

    This week I'll be back in my corner with the bass & percussion:)
    I just add a bit of spice and follow the style of WL.
     
  20. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    1,269
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Location:
    Birmingham Alabama
    Easy answer most Churches today are doing a SONG SERVICE but never allow real heartfelt worship to happen. they muzzle the musicians and the singers and force them in a box of religion rather that let those who are truly called to be a Psalmist do what they are called to do. It's sing a NEW song to the Lord not lets play rehashed Christian Karaoke so we can make folks sing along and feel good!!
    Bottom line few today understand what true worship is and the majority of those who do try to play it don't know who and more importantly WHAT they ARE!
    There are exacpetions like jason Upton, Rick Pino, the folk at Morning Star, IHOP, Christ For the neatiosn and others like them but those are few. For the most part today the Worship industry is a multi BILLION $ BUSINESS. It's controlled by the same secular indiustry forces today as modern pop music and this is entertainment NOT WORSHIP!!
    THIS is who and WHAT we are not that entertainer MESS!!

    1 Chronicles 25 King James Version (KJV)
    25 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:

    2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah, the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph, which prophesied according to the order of the king.

    3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the Lord.

    4 Of Heman: the sons of Heman: Bukkiah, Mattaniah, Uzziel, Shebuel, and Jerimoth, Hananiah, Hanani, Eliathah, Giddalti, and Romamtiezer, Joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir, and Mahazioth:

    5 All these were the sons of Heman the king's seer in the words of God, to lift up the horn. And God gave to Heman fourteen sons and three daughters.

    6 All these were under the hands of their father for song in the house of the Lord, with cymbals, psalteries, and harps, for the service of the house of God, according to the king's order to Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman.

    7 So the number of them, with their brethren that were instructed in the songs of the Lord, even all that were cunning, was two hundred fourscore and eight.
    That is WHO and WHAT we are suposed to be and when we really do what we are supposed to do THIS is what should happen!
    2 Chronicles 5 vs 13-14.
    God's Glory Fills the Temple
    …13The trumpeters and singers joined together to praise and thank the LORD with one voice. They raised their voices, accompanied by trumpets, cymbals, and musical instruments, in praise to the LORD: “For He is good; His loving devotion endures forever.” Then the temple, the house of the LORD, was filled with a cloud 14so that the priests could not stand there to minister because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God.
    That is what my old friend and the former worship leader for John Paul Jackson ( who I played with for years BTW) Shawn Lombard was writing about HERE in this song!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.