Is this the first generation where mainstream music is more vanilla than the prior generation?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by deytookerjaabs, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. EsquireBoy

    EsquireBoy Tele-Meister

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    I think the reason for actual discord you’re talking about was related to the need of a revolution that many were feeling back then, and that translated into music (jazz, rock n roll, folk, punk, early hip hop and so on).
    Where is the revolution today, when a substantial part of the new generation is acting like business men and women caring about their popularity on social media?
    But this generation discord translating into music is still alive in many parts of the world where young people crave for a revolution.
     
  2. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    kids these days are smart.
    They see through that rebellion schtick better than their parents did, often

    and yeah when mom and dad were into slayer and 2 live crew growing up, they're gonna be a little harder to offend
     
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  3. geoff_in_nc

    geoff_in_nc Friend of Leo's

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    I do find current pop music, if not repulsive, then at least cringe-inducing. Then I go pop in Trout Mask Replica, and relax... Lol go figure. I'm not sure if music has - in general - gotten more vanilla but I believe my ears were trained by what I heard as a teen/young adult. Music hasn't gotten wholly vanilla necessarily, as much as it has just changed. If classic rock was edgier and "better" (whatever that means) then young people would turn their radios and streaming services to listen to it. But they don't. I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to say change happens... We live in a wondrous time where we can easily listen to anything we want. If I don't like something I go listen somewhere else.
     
  4. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    I agree, in terms of "repulsion" in lyrics it's like "how far can you go?" as the fringes have just about been covered, especially if you listened to a lot of rap.

    But what if you take the lyrics out of the equation?

    Would the 808 beats or the thrash guitar still seem palatable to the older folks? In general, it seemed like "the sound" was a common complaint without even reading the words.
     
  5. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    So, you think it's sort of a fundamental lack of cultural upheaval and the previous changes in sound were born through forms of revolutionary thought? I'd be interested in any examples you can give of that sort of upheaval going on in other parts of the world right now.
     
  6. lammie200

    lammie200 Tele-Afflicted

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    Trends in pop music have always changed. Snare drums, guitar songs, synth sounds, etc. all had their days. One of the two things that I see with today's pop music is compressed loudness. There are fewer dynamics with it and subtlety with loudness is gone. The second thing that I see is more and more repetition. Songs without bridges are common. If they have bridges they don't flow and become more repetitive themselves.
     
  7. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I understand your original point. I just disagree with it, because you seem to not see the difference between "music" and "mainstream music" (which is what you are talking about).

    There was surely enough out there to piss off older folks in the '70s, '80s, '90s, and on till today...but it was largely less widely popular music: FM rock, underground rock, heavy metal, punk rock, etc. That which was AM, mainstream rock, in the '70s was basically just easy listening with guitars. Have you ever actually sat down and listened to The Eagles? It's frickin' lounge music, basically. Heavy crap was simply NOT on the mainstream radio in the '70s. Old Creedence singles from the previous decade was about the heaviest thing that American AM radio had to offer.

    Kids in their aughts and teens (i.e. parental complaining' about their musical taste age) in the '70s are late Baby Boomers, born in the mid-late '50s to mid '60s. They largely would have been born to parents who were born during the Depression, not to parents who came of age during it. Their parents were of Korean War veteran age, not WWII veteran age that came of age during the Depression, like those who gave birth to the early Baby Boomers. The people who gave birth to early Baby Boomers would have been pissed off by their kids listening to '60s rock, not '70s. By the '70s, their kids would have been out of the house.

    But regardless, I just don't see how you can say that anyone from either of these semi-generations (those born in the '20s or those born in the '30s) would find something as lame and tame and white as The Eagles as offensive as, for example, early Elvis Presley: grinding, raunchy, black sounding, abrasive.
     
  8. Les H

    Les H Tele-Meister

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    I'm getting old but I could very easily like anything new. I'm pretty simple, all it takes is 3 to 4 chords played well and I could be all in. But they're really struggling to find those 3 to 4 chords played well these days.
     
  9. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    I think homogeneity following trends and "easy listening" chart toppers have always been around since the charts started, that's pretty obvious. Just go look at the top 100 charts year to year, tons of campy forgotten acts. Elvis co-existed with doo-wop, Beatles co-existed with Beatle clones, just like the Eagles co-existed with heavier rock acts.

    I'm not sure what your trip is, that I don't understand edgy music as well as you do? Okay....you're welcome to judge from afar. I probably lean towards the far end of the eclectic spectrum but I'm not so concerned with my views here as I am the trend at large.


    And, yes, my point of "dust bowlers' was in regards to those who were little kids in the depression and gave birth to baby boomers. You bear the cross of criticizing the fine details.


    We can get lost in semantics, if that's your thing I'll oblige but in the course of it you seem hell bent on obfuscating the generic observation of there not being a seemingly widespread discord between parents and their adolescent's music in the modern era that, seemingly, used to exist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  10. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Smart kid.
     
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  11. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Good point. The baby boomers (I am one) did not take the 60s rock to heart and look like a bunch of hypocrites that they are today. The kids see this clear as day and justifiably so.
     
  12. EsquireBoy

    EsquireBoy Tele-Meister

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    This is just an idea, but I think it could partly explain the somewhat consensual character of a lot of the music produced today in developed countries. The illusion that there is nothing to fight for or against reflects in music and arts in general.
    As for examples of cultural upheaval and music in other parts of the world, I could refer to the iranien movie by Bahman Ghobadi in 2009: in French it is entitled « Les Chats persans »; unfortunately I could not find its English title (I am not even sure it was released in the US).
     
  13. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Well there's music and then there's music, isn't there? If you claim that there is any one period of time that is completely and exclusively represented by one sort of music I'll laugh in your face, because it's simply not true. At any given time there are many different kinds of music going on (depending on how you want to draw those borders), with varying degrees of crossover (including none at all) within the music and its fans. There are "original hardcore" punk fans who laugh at the kids shopping at Hot Topic, but there are also people who grew up on The Monkees and whose parents dug "How Much is That Doggy in the Window?" and that whole family would have been terrified by Lady Gaga.

    And that's not even getting into the bias we have of thinking the music we remember from (or associate with) the '70's (for example) is "THE MUSIC" of that time. There's tons of music that never made it out of the time when it was made but tons of people listened to at the time, and which further complicates the question.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure that any new music "shocking" enough to unsettle the previous generation would never be heard by most people posting here. I posted a thread a while back about hip hop (a genre with, what, half a century behind it at this point?), and judging by some of the responses you'd think I burned someone's house down.
     
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  14. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Meister

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    You just need to know where to look for it. Listening to the radio will never yield something like this, for instance...

    https://troykingi.bandcamp.com/
     
  15. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    Hmmmm.


    I think my use of the term "mainstream" clouded my point. These days I guess it's youtube views to the youth, any other time selling enough albums to 13-20 years olds along with filling good sized venues enough to make a cultural impact I consider to be "what the kids are listening to." Basically, stuff that a decent portion of kids listen to.


    Another example...I play with some older fellas in an R&B group. They talk about when coming up their parents despised the funk & R/B stuff they listened to from Parliament Funkadelic to Isaac Hayes etc, just like they aren't fans of hip hop themselves.


    Now, are there legitimate elements to these changes in musical form that took place? Yeah, I'd say the pockets/syncopation/production and other factors changed with the music. Now, was that discord simply just some empty "Rebellious Shtick?" as noted or legitimate sonic exploration?


    Moreover, to the original point, of all the Millennial Parents I know very few who are repulsed in any way by what their kids are listening to.



    Which no one stated, in my OP I mentioned Slayer, WuTang Clan, and Primus. How do you translate that into someone arguing that "there is a period in time that is completely and exclusively represented by one sort of music."


    Was it a riddle or something?? lol
     
  16. PlainAllman

    PlainAllman Tele-Meister

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    Yes. My kids music sucks. I have tried to explain that to them but they are teenagers so they don’t really listen anyway.
     
  17. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah, I was just about to comment on "mainstream," and how that's not always a clear-cut term. Some people wield the term like an insult, others insist it just means something benign like "popular music played on the radio," or even "any song that ranks in the charts." But ask someone for an example of "mainstream" music, and it's not always clear I think... it even changes based on genre of music. What songs was your daughter listening to? It might help to use an example.

    I gather that you are more specifically talking about something like not having the equivalent of a Marilyn Manson, Gene Simmons, 2 Live Crew, etc., not having songs like "Sweet Little Sixteen" sung by a 30-year-old Chuck Berry, "Brown Sugar," "Rape Me," "Cop Killer," etc.? Are those some accurate examples to add to the conversation?

    I think those types of songs are still out there, but the topics the songs were about that were shocking in the 50's, 70's, 90's are not as shocking today, even though they are still being written about (sexuality, violence, drugs, and things we can't talk about on TDPRI.) I don't think that makes it "vanilla" at all though.
     
  18. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    No, though perhaps not the best wording on my part.

    My point is just that your idea of (music of X time) being more or less a certain way than (music of Y time) implies (whether you mean it to or not) a commonality or at least a general trend across the music of a given time.

    My assertion is that such a commonality/trend in the popular music (broadly speaking) of any time in the last century or so does not exist.

    There has been, at all times of the popular music era, enough different kinds of music that you can't really make such a statement, at least not so broadly. If you qualified it somehow, then perhaps.
     
  19. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    I think you're suffering from comparing the standard pop music of today with the groundbreaking countercultural non-standard pop music that is all we remember about the Glory Decades of Rock. What was actually popular in the 70s? Mostly Disco. Kenny Rogers and John Denver were huge. Etc. It's not entirely true, but pretty much. You should be comparing Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga against Franki Valli or The Monkees if you want to be fair.

    In short, not apples to apples. There IS the factor of it all having been done before. Who is going to be "heavier" and "more transgressive" than the crazy extremes that metal has gone to, or some of the rap lyrics. There's nothing more taboo you can sing about that hasn't been sung about already, if that's your game.
     
  20. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    A tangent, perhaps, but how do we even define "mainstream"? A teenager today might think that Led Zeppelin were mainstream '70's music. They're certainly one of the longest-lasting (popularity-wis) and most impactful bands of that time, but my understanding is that during that time they were practically a cult band (albeit one with a rather large and enthusiastic cult). Like, other teenagers listening to the Carpenters or whatever thought Led Zeppelin was weird music for weird people.
     
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