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Is this Telecaster fake??? Please help!

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by alexlpak, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. alexlpak

    alexlpak TDPRI Member

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    Everyone, I can't thank you enough for the immense support on this topic and knowledge! I am definitely not getting that, BUT, great news! I'm getting my hands on a Fender Baja Telecaster in Desert Sand soon and I couldn't be more excited! :)
     
  2. funff

    funff Tele-Holic

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    Post some pics before you buy. You know. Just in case...
    ;-)
    Only joking! Hope you get the guitar you want soon.
     
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  3. AAT65

    AAT65 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good to hear there will be a happy ending to the tale!
     
  4. Treeface

    Treeface Tele-Meister

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    So the end result would be that the fakers keep improving until their offerings become indistinguishable from real Teles. At that point what's the harm of buying a fake :)
     
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  5. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    Bad fret work and crappy pickups? (If we're just looking at photos anyway)
     
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  6. KevinB

    KevinB Doctor of Teleocity

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    The "harm" is that you'd be sustaining an illegal, if not immoral, activity and potentially putting a fine, old company and its workers out of business? :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    A better reason than my own!
     
  8. 1hoofer

    1hoofer Tele-Meister

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    Fender (and all the other legitimate makers) provide guidance to fakers/counterfeiters by making the genuine article in the first place!

    They are out there for crooks to copy, irrespective of any comments on this forum.

    I am not defending crooks and what they do, by the way.
     
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  9. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Friend of Leo's

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    Correct. If you want to print money, reach into your billfold and you'll find a fine example of what your currency looks like. You can even easily find information on the security features, but that doesn't make it easy to reproduce. If someone really wanted to reproduce an American Fender guitar they could do it to the fine detail, but that would cost more money on their end.
     
  10. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    ??

    My sense is, a lot of these crooks do not have access to the real thing. They are located mostly in places where acquiring a real one would be a costly and time consuming undertaking. These guys are resourceful and driven but IMO what they do not have that they would like, is information. Information in the form of hands on experience with the real thing and access to specific detail. I strongly disagree with this image that they have a couple dozen genuine Fenders of each model to work off of. Some of the time it appears they've never in their life held the real thing.

    Indirectly IMO you are defending them; rationalizing what they do. We shouldn't have to amend our behavior in any way to keep these stray lambs from going out of bounds and neither should FMIC. These counterfeiters are the bad people and they have no organic or preordained business being that way. They're doing wrong and we only change our behavior to protect ourselves and if they get hanged for doing what they do, that's 100% their fault - not ours and not FMIC's.

    Do you really think someone could make a counterfeit car off a Mazda sale website? How about a counterfeit motorcycle? In a world where guys usually realize when they go to buy their usual guitar strings and somehow they get a counterfeit pack, how realistic is it that the better informed consumer would be fooled by a guitar built with nothing but the vague information FMIC puts on their webpage? I don't buy it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  11. KevinB

    KevinB Doctor of Teleocity

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    I think fake Fenders come in three distinct flavours:

    There are the “vintage replica” builders. These guys are typically extremely talented (and one we know is extremely arrogant!) They build high cost replicas of actual vintage guitars and are even endorsed by some pro guitar players. Fender has been after them aggressively over the last few years with quite a few lawsuits, mostly because of their use of Fender logos and headstock designs. If you look at the photos of their guitars on their websites you typically won’t see a complete guitar; the headstock always seems to be out of the picture! I wonder why! Personally I don’t think they’re a huge problem as while they might be considered fakes, they are usually fairly big ticket items and you won’t see that many of them around.

    Then there are the clowns who try to pass of something like an Affinity as a USA made Fender, by putting on fake decals and changing a few things here and there. It’s odious that they do it but people can definitely get burned on places like eBay and CL. Fortunately most of us can probably spot these fakes quite easily.

    The biggest problem is the (usually Asian) factories that are producing fake Fenders in quantity. Some may even be made in the actual factories that produce guitars for Fender themselves. We’ve heard stories about how the “night shift” comes in to do a little moonlighting with or without management approval! Usually we can also spot these fakes but they are getting better and better all the time at it.

    The only way to protect yourself is to become as knowledgeable as you can. And it’s not easy. Reading one of the links posted earlier in this thread as “education” I was surprised by how much dangerously missing information there was with statements like “From 1976 forward, all real Fender Telecasters have the serial number on the face of the headstock”, which if you have a US Reissue you’ll know is simply not true. There again, writing up a “complete” version of how to spot a fake would be no easy task so I should at least commend them for trying. Anyway, I’d encourage anyone who has any doubts about a guitar to pose their questions here. We may be educating some of the crooks, but I don’t think too many of the Asian factory fakers are reading this website!
     
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  12. richa

    richa Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    They don't need to be that convincing as fakes because they don't need to convince TDPRI. There is someone else in line right behind the OP who won't check. Sad but true.
     
  13. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I think your points about making about cars and motorcycles is a bit towards the extreme side as they would require a lot more detail to match an original. If you go on fenders site you can find out pretty much everything you need to make an identical copy.

    If you look at the current standard telecaster on the fender site, it tells you all the specs from fret wire size, to pickups, to the knobs used, to the bridge and pretty much everything you can think of it's all there. I think you could be given a model to reproduce and just going by the fender specs posted online no pictures someone could reproduce a very good copy with good enough luthier skills, the odd thing maybe wrong (like how the neck pickup is mounted, pickguard or body) but with photos it would be very possible to reproduce an exact copy. I'm not defending them if anything I think it's an insult that they can get something this wrong and expect it not to arouse suspicion.
     
  14. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Well, Fenders are inherently easy to copy, compared to a lot of other goods. There's way more than enough info out there on the web. Heck, we got a mighty precise tele pdf right here on TDPRI! (It's a thing of beauty, BTW!) Sure some fellas are out there just winging it, but when you think about the difference in overhead (labor costs, promotion, R&D, etc.), you know it's possible to build a really good facsimile for a small fraction of what Fender charges. Remember, we only know about the lame ones...

    At a certain point, the only difference between the real ones and fakes is a moral/ethical one (I always get confused about the difference between moral and ethical).

    And that's when you really learn what a man is made of. :cool:
     
  15. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I'm sure morals and ethics are interchangeable in most circumstances anyway haha
     
  16. KevinB

    KevinB Doctor of Teleocity

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    From The Grammarist...

    Ethics vs. morals

    Morals are the principles on which one’s judgments of right and wrong are based. Ethics are principles of right conduct. So the two nouns are closely related and are often interchangeable. The main difference is that morals are more abstract, subjective, and often personal or religion-based, while ethics are more practical, conceived as shared principles promoting fairness in social and business interactions. For example, a politician’s sex scandal may involve a moral lapse (a subjective judgment), while a politician taking money from a company he is supposed to regulate is an ethical problem. But of course, both ethics and morals may have a part in both situations.

    Ethics (the word takes a plural form but is treated as singular) is also a field of philosophical study. There aren’t many college courses on morals (though ethics courses inevitably involve discussions of morals), whereas classes in ethics are required for many degrees, especially in law, business, and medicine.

    Meanwhile, the difference between ethics and morals is often formulated this way: that ethics are the science of morals, and morals are the practice of ethics. But that’s a little too neat and doesn’t cover all the ways in which the words are used.

    Please think of this post as only a summary of the concepts. Anyone who has studied these issues closely might have much more to say about what they mean and how they differ.​
     
  17. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I guess I sorta got it ;)
     
  18. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    WADR to our Chinese friends, isn't the whole Chinese economy based on stealing American designs and selling cheap knockoffs? Obviously they find zero moral or ethical problems with it. They call it shanzhai. You can get a genuine Monet or Picasso for about $40. http://www.dafenvillageonline.com/ Or a cheap Lockheed fighter jet. 10-strange-chinese-knockoffs-that-you-wont-believe-exist-2.jpg mike.jpg mike.jpg I think they don't bother to be careful to make exact copies so they can claim that it's not a copy at all, just kinda similar. What a world. Screen-Shot-2015-07-14-at-4.27.17-PM.png 10-strange-chinese-knockoffs-that-you-wont-believe-exist-7.jpg
     
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  19. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Ethics vs. morals

    Morals are the principles on which one’s judgments of right and wrong are based. Ethics are principles of right conduct. So the two nouns are closely related and are often interchangeable. The main difference is that morals are more abstract, subjective, and often personal or religion-based, while ethics are more practical, conceived as shared principles promoting fairness in social and business interactions. For example, a politician’s sex scandal may involve a moral lapse (a subjective judgment), while a politician taking money from a company he is supposed to regulate is an ethical problem. But of course, both ethics and morals may have a part in both situations.​

    These little side trips are one of the reasons I like TDPRI so much...
     
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  20. Jazzerstang

    Jazzerstang Tele-Afflicted

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    101% Fake
     
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