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is this possible? crazy? or been done before?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by DjimiWrey, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    Your question is confusing... you have a Deluxe with 6L6's now? But it's too heavy?

    Here's the deal, you can convert a DR to 6L6's without being much heavier. It will have more clean sparkle, but it wont be quite a Twin Reverb either. Transformer size matters for clean headroom. And transformers are where the weight is at. So your "Deluxe with 6L6's" must have big tranny's if it's too heavy.
     
  2. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    A very wise man (Yogi Berra) once said, "It is what it is because of what it is".

    You'll never get a smaller amp to sound like a Twin Reverb.

    Get a head box and split the weight.
     
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  3. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    And adjust the EQ as needed.
     
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  4. DjimiWrey

    DjimiWrey Tele-Meister

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    my mistake, schmee; i purchased a hotrod deluxe with a 6L6 chassis.
    the traditional deluxe reverb is notably lighter in weight.
    having my equipment fail two days after i got a dream gig led to some impulse purchases.
    you and the other kind folks here at tdpri have had a calming effect lol
    thanks
     
  5. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    I would think a DR type build with slightly larger power tranny, like a fat stack or Vibrolux/Pro power tranny, and the largest Output tranny you can deal with for weight would be a good loud amp.
    Basicially a Vibrolux 1 x 12 with:
    - bigger OT,
    - a SS rectifier plug in
    - loud heavy duty speaker like an Emi Red White and Blues (150 watt) would get you close.

    A modded DR with only a bigger OT might get you there if you do the same things mentioned above.

    Maybe Larger filter caps or Choke if that doesn't get you there.
    There's little difference in a Twin and a Deluxe Rev wiring wise. It's all about trannys and speakers.

    I just looked up the weight difference in DR transformers and Super Reverb transformers: (Does this seem correct?)
    DR:

    Power: 5.4#
    Output: 2.2#
    Total:7.6#

    Super:

    Power: 7.5#
    Output: 4.8#
    Total:12.3#

    So to upgrade a DR to Super power is approx only 4.7# heavier.
    If your DR has a wimpy speaker then add another few lbs, but if it's a reissue with a Jensen C12K, probably no added weight!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  6. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    The Hot Rod Deluxe is 45lbs
    The DRRI is 42lbs...


    It's called a Vibrolux....
    2x10" speakers and 2x6L6 tubes... roughly 35 watts.
    It's middle ground between a Deluxe and a Twin and the '68 re-issue specs at 41lbs
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  7. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Afflicted

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    Goldilocks may pick the Vibrolux based on specs alone, but it doesn't sound like a twin. The preamp is low voltage for less headroom and the power section is tubey and mushy. Reminded me of a punchier Deluxe more than its 6L6 brothers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  8. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Not quite.... Yes, the 4x10 vs 2x12 changes the tone a good bit, but the different iron is just different. The bass response you get with the huge Twin iron is just cleaner, clearer. It makes for a different clean tone, but it also distorts in a different way as well. The authority, and pure hit you in the chest feel and sound are different.

    As they say in the hot rod world, there is no replacement for displacement. (If that is the sound you want)


    A lot of folks suggest the Pro Reverb, 2x12 at 40 watts. Both are great amps. I had a '69 Vibrolux Reverb for a while. I loved the amp. But, it was not a smaller Twin Reverb. Smaller iron broke up really easily, and differently.

    I maintain that it is still different. Big iron is just different than small iron.

    ---------------------------------

    Now, I will qualify my statements and say that if we're strictly talking recording? Then, you can make any of them sound like any of the others. You can goof with speakers, mic placement, fiddle with the EQ, on and on. Even just popping a single mic in front of a small Marshall amp, you can get a similar sound to a Twin... Think about all the arguments over Jimmy Page's gear over the years! Used to be, folks thought he had some huge amps in the studio, turns out he was using little practice amps and driving the crap out of them.

    Also, have to take into account, 'Good enough'. Do you need to feel a certain thing from your amp? Do you need that big bass response? How much overdrive/distortion do you want/need? Do you get overdrive from your amp, or form a pedal? Some folks don't really hear the difference. Some folks don't play loud enough that it will make a difference. Some folks put enough pedals in front it doesn't make a difference (other than available volume). The enemy of good enough is perfection.
     
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  9. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Afflicted

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    My keyboard player used to joke about my Pro Reverb as having all the weight of a twin with the volume of a deluxe. He also used to say my 5-cyl Audi coupe had the mileage of a v6 with the hp of an I4. While both are true, it's possible he only knew one joke.
     
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  10. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    My wife is convinced I only have two or three jokes... 'least I'm ahead of your old keyboard player! LOL
     
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  11. DrPepper

    DrPepper Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Bestest amp ever...
     
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  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Pretty much, well it's like, basically uh, Nope!

    You need to get out more; play a Pro Reverb, Bandmaster Reverb, Bandmaster non reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, and Super Reverb.
    None sound like a Twin Reverb, and among those only the Bandmaster non reverb has a SS rectifier, but also the smaller OT of all those other 2x6L6 amps.
    A BF/SF Bassman head has a bigger OT and SS rectifier but depending on the circuit also doesn't sound like a Twin, though it might get closer than the rest.

    A problem is that there are many aspects of "a sound" and we don't know which aspects you want.
    A 2x6v6 amp like a BFDR can make sounds that satisfy some players Twin needs.
    Swapping 6L6 into that amp made Eric Johnson happy but to him it sounded better than a Twin Reverb.

    Used to be a very common Nashville studio amp setup, a BFDR with the 6v6 swapped out for 6L6. Almost invariably there would have been at least one Twin reverb in the room but the DR was chosen, because: not the same sound.
     
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  13. John E

    John E Friend of Leo's

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    There was a guy (or family) on Ebay named Frenzel that sold a "Super Deluxe" with 6L6 and slightly bigger iron. Seemed to get good reviews. For years I considered taking the plunge with one of their builds but I just never did.
     
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    For my amp fantasy dollar I'd walk right past the corpulent Deluxe Reverb platform to the Prineton.

    You can thank me for my idea, what, Randall Smith came up with that?
    Anyhow, the long chassis for the second channel isn't useful aside from affording more room for preamp tubes.
    Quite a few amps are on the market with sorta the same idea, little combo, AB763 preamp circuit, 2x6L6.

    Hoffman, Vintage Sound, Weber kits, to name a few.
    I'm not good with names but I've seen some of these at local GC stores for around or under $1000, nice considering you get a hand wired premium built amp for around the price of a PRRI/DRRI/TRRI.
     
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  15. JRapp

    JRapp Tele-Holic

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    Pro Reverb + Bassman OT + 7581A + SS rectifier...and I just converted a Vibrolux Reverb to 1x12, also with a multi-tap Bassman OT. The amp Fender never made...it sounds great.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  16. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I gotta say, I agree. On Friday, I was driving by GC, so I stopped in. They has a Tonemaster DR set up. I gave it a try, with a nice surf green Strat. Sure, it sounded OK, didn't suck or anything. But it felt like things were missing. For one thing, I could turn it up to five and still sit right in front of it. Usually, with tube DRs, people get that scared look on their faces and say, "Turn it down!", between 3 and 4. Also the punch was missing, the attack, the percussive slam, the excitement. It would be fine for gigs, and it is pinky-finger light, but it's not the same.

    Good luck with your amp search.
     
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  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'd didn't elaborate on why I said try a Princeton Reverb. Out of all the 6v6 Fenders I've own the PR was the only one I liked for its clean sound. The DR and Champ do fine but I only liked um cranked up and dirty. My favorite Fender cleans have always been Twin Reverbs, the PR was just as nice. Of course you only get cleans out of a PR up too a point, but that point is actually pretty loud. Especially given that gigs are quieter and most folks play at home anyway.
    Plus you just can't get much lighter than a PR.
     
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  18. DjimiWrey

    DjimiWrey Tele-Meister

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    thanks, y'all
    there are so many great sounding amps that will do the job
     
  19. DjimiWrey

    DjimiWrey Tele-Meister

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    thanks, man; i am leaning towards a princeton... this is just a little texas dancehall with a low ceiling so 25-40 watts is more than enough. i have 45 days to return the hotrod deluxe and will demo some smaller fender tube amps now that i at least have something that works... it's just too dang heavy
    i was loving the clean tone out of my little super champ x2 but running it wide open at blues band rehearsal made the speaker start to sound like it was farting
     
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  20. DjimiWrey

    DjimiWrey Tele-Meister

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    wish i had your skills
     
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