Is this a scam or not?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by DugT, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I would only accept cash. Tell the buyer to post you the cash and you will ship the item when you receive the cash..

    Craigslist is like doing business in bartertown in mad max3. Its full of mutant scammers and thieves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  2. hotpot

    hotpot Tele-Afflicted

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    I only do cash on collection only when I sell on ebay now, there are too many scam artists out there and I'm too dumb to know if I'm being scammed :eek::D
     
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  3. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    This is your first sign it's a scam. Wow you save 2 or 3% of the sale and *you* violate Paypal's terms of service. When the guy cancels his gift to you, what are you going to complain to paypal about? That you made a commercial transaction but wanted to save a few bucks and not pay them their fee. I wonder what they would do for you (hint:nothing).
     
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  4. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    Call PayPal and explain the transaction. I have used PayPal w-out eBay and everything was fine. The gift part is bogus tho. I ve gotten Russians wanting to buy stuff shipped as a gift, but that's customs related.
     
  5. DugT

    DugT Tele-Holic

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    I frequently use Paypal "Gift" because that way there are no Paypal charges. If the buyer is willing to transfer money to me via Gift, I thought it would be safe. One post here said PayPal Gift transfers cannot be reversed and the buyer could not dispute any shipping issues because the gift isn't a sales transaction.

    I've decided not to proceed with the transaction but I just sent Paypal an email asking if a Gift transfer can be disputed or reversed. I'll post Paypals response.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  6. etype

    etype Tele-Afflicted

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    I wonder what the buyer would say if you suggested paying as goods (so you get less profit), but insisting that he pay you to ship (instead of the pre-paid sticker). If he won't work with you (costing him maybe an extra $20), then you do indeed need to walk away from this... If you weren't already walking!
     
  7. etype

    etype Tele-Afflicted

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    Good idea, and please report back what you find out!
     
  8. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have sold and bought this way. Including maybe a month ago. It's hard to say. But that one sounds legit due to providing a shipping label. I did exactly that a month ago. Here's how to do it:
    Buying: Ask him to send you a Paypal Invoice stating the item and condition. Pay via that invoice.
    Selling: send them a Paypal Invoice stating the item and condition and return terms. make sure the Paypal payment has cleared before shipping. Add your tracking to the paypal site when shipped.

    For their fee Paypal is a broker in these situations. If you dont get it they will get your money back. It's good to actually talk to a buyer/seller on the phone. You can tell what they are if they even are willing to talk and give you a number.

    There are some repeated scams on CL now but almost always by Text. They offer to pay up front and a friend will come get it. Or offer a cashier's check etc. "Just clik this link" DON'T!
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  9. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'm with the majority here.

    The two big tips offs are using !1) PayPal Gift for what is obviously a commercial transaction which puts you in a tough spot as having accepted payment on fraudulent terms, and 2) allowing a buyer you don't know from Adam to make shipping arrangements he has control of so you have no personal protection.

    These scammers have used up all of their former ploys so they're getting more creative now.

    I've had one offer like that on a guitar which was immediately suspicious since it was one that could easily have been bought locally for less than my asking price + the shipping. Why would someone overpay to buy a fairly common model from a seller 600 miles distant. It doesn't pass the smell test.

    CL is traditionally for cash only local sales. Nothing is hidden between a buyer and a seller. The buyer gets to see what he's buying before handing over his cash and once that's done the deal is finished with no recourse given on a sellers part. Once it leaves my hands I'm no longer on the hook for anything period.

    If a long distance buyer wants it he needs a local party to whom I will sell and deliver it upon payment in verifiable cash or USPS MO and that parties name will be on the bill of sale. The "agent" or "good buddy" or whoever is now the buyer, he can ship it, and again once it leaves my possession my responsibilities have ended.
     
  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Initially I thought a gift through PP shouldn't be reversible by the giver since there was no business transaction, and PP takes money back when the seller defaults.

    But if the buyer is using stolen PP info, then the rightful owner of the PP acct can go to their bank and report the fraud, then the bank will demand the money back from PP, who could then take it back from you.

    There is a newer transfer service called pop money that I used recently, and friends warned me it might be a scam.
    The buyer was a sort of friend, but lives 500 miles away and I only know him from vacation stays where I work.
    My assumption was that since I was not giving him the car or the title until I'd been paid in full, I was safe.
    But while I inquired about the pop money system at my bank, I did not ask them if it could be reversed by the sender.

    In your case it's possible that PP will tell you a gift cannot be taken back without your consent, but they may fail to mention that if the PP acct is used by a scammer rather than the owner, a retrieval of the funds could be made by other than PP, even though PP cannot do that.

    Learned to be a little more paranoid in this thread!

    Edit: I do know that PP still provides buyer protection outside of ebay, since you get the buyer protection when buying on Reverb. But only with the correct transaction, since there is no buyer protection with the gift/ family transaction.
     
  11. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've been on both sides of deals like that through CL a few times, and it's pretty easy to sniff out scam vs legit if you do some due diligence via emails or phone calls. One instance was a very specific and discontinued extension cabinet that I was after that I couldn't find on eBay or reverb. I found one somewhere in the midwest for a decent price and approached the seller via email initially to see if he would be willing to do a long distance transaction, followed by several email exchanges going over details, and finally a phone call just to seal the deal. I was happy, he was happy, and I no longer own that cab because I eventually sold the amp that it went with, but that's another unrelated story. :lol: Another instance I was approached by a buyer for some motorcycle gear that he was specifically looking for that he couldn't find elsewhere. Same deal - emails, phone call, and sealed the deal.

    Do some due diligence and you should be able to pretty easily figure out whether it's a scam or not. Whether it's worth the hassle to ship is up to you.

    Generally, PayPal F&F payments can't be clawed back through PayPal but there have been some cases I've seen where a buyer has been able to do so only if they've been able to show fraud on the part of the seller. The buyer can also go around PayPal and file a dispute through their bank or CC provider and get a provisional credit while the bank/CC investigates. Again though, they'd have to prove fraud on your part as the seller for that credit to stick and for them to claw back the money.
     
  12. DugT

    DugT Tele-Holic

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    Here is PayPal's response to my question about the safety of Gift money transfers:


    "Thank you for contacting PayPal.

    Personal payments are not intended for the purchase of goods or services from sellers and therefore cannot be disputed.

    An example of a personal payment would be sending money to a family member or splitting a bill with friends at a restaurant after one person has paid.

    When you use PayPal to send money, you need to select the payment as either a purchase or personal payment.

    Personal payments are for sending a gift, splitting a lunch bill, paying your share of living expenses, and everyday exchanges of money between friends and family. You can choose this option by selecting "Sending to a friend."
    • There is no need for eBay or item information for personal payments.
    • Personal payment transactions are not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection or Seller Protection.
    If you are purchasing goods or services from a seller or merchant, you need to mark the payment as a purchase by selecting "Paying for an item or service."

    Note: Unfortunately, we’ve had to stop allowing personal payments to be sent to and from India. If you’re sending money for a personal payment to India, we ask that you find another way to pay until we’re able to restore personal payments to this area.

    It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal."

    The bold statement is my emphasis. It sounds good but it might not include stolen paypal accounts. In my case, I don't think this is a concern because I have talked to the buyer and he sounds legit and knows more about guitars and amps than I do. However, I wonder if PayPal could void the transaction if they learned that it was a transaction and not a gift. My wild guess is they woiuld be more likely to ban me than take the money out of my account.

    By the way, I looked up amps like mine for sale on Craig's List in his area and the closest one is a 3 hour drive each way.

    Any more comments?
     
  13. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    A few years back I was up late surfing the CL listings and found a barely used $2500 Combo amp 4 states away. It was cheap at a grand and everything was described as being less than 3 months old and in perfect condition. Now there were a ton of red flags being priced so low, but I though what the hell and called the guy. It went straight to voicemail and I left a message saying that if he really had this amp and it was not stolen (which he would have to prove) I wanted it. I never heard back and assumed it was not legit.

    Three days later, the seller called me back and explained the whole thing. He purchased it 3 months ago, a dream amp, but then became diagnosed with terminal cancer. He wanted to sell off his gear so that his daughter didn't have to deal with it in the days ahead. Included sales receipts, warranty card....even the doctors name. When he discovered that I was 4 states away, he started crying on the phone and believed that I was some kind of scammer who just gained his personal information. Even threatened to haunt me after his death (a little uncomfortable to hear a person in his condition say that).

    I convinced him that I was real, but he wouldn't accept any form of electronic transaction for payment and I was not going to fly just for an amp. I took the big gamble instead and sent him a check with the shipping instructions allowing him to hold the amp until it cleared and he had the money. Although very risky, my guts felt it was a safe bet he would follow through and might have been the only way to get the amp before someone else did.

    Everything went as planned, a few days later he delivered the amp to UPS who packed it up and shipped. It is a whole lot of amp for the money and one that I will never sell off for fear he really would haunt me for it.

    The point being that the only reason I have that amp now is because I called him instead of texting or emailing...he had dozens of them in the first hour of listing the amp. CL deals can be very risky and a gamble, but sometimes those gambles pay off if you are willing to take the risk. I think all the scammers actually help you to get great deals as it softens up the seller to where they just want it over with.
     
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  14. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Tele-Holic

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    As far as CL goes, I am 100% cash in hand in person, or no deal. No checks, no money orders and certainly no travelers checks.
     
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