1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Is single coil out of phase a useful sound to have?

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by Babaluma, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Babaluma

    Babaluma TDPRI Member

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    86
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Location:
    London
    Hi all,
    I hope you are all doing well! I was pondering whether having an out of phase switch on my Tele is a useful sound to have? It is a standard 2 pickup single coil model. I was always under the impression OOP was more a mod for a humbucking guitar so you could transform from a fat rock sound to a more country twang? I also thought it only really worked with a guitar with twin volume controls for each pup so you could bring it the intensity in and out like Peter Green did?

    I know it only works in the middle position with both pups but wouldn't it just make a double single coil guitar un-useably spindly?

    If it is a cool sound, any examples of how people use it practically when jamming or in the studio would be interesting.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Terrygh1949 and Flip G like this.
  2. ReverendRevolver

    ReverendRevolver Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,774
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Location:
    Ohio (Nerk)
    It's not a sound I would trade the actual rwrp in phase sou d of 2 single coils for.

    It's a neat extra option to have, but it's less useful than other single coil setups. Like, series or parallel(or S1 button), Jaguars lead/rythm circuit, tele blend pot, and kill switches are all more useful.

    I used to borrow my late grandfathers mustang, and it was neat to be able to do. But I also would try flicking to bridge only, overshoot the middle, and go out of phase when in just wanted the bridge.....

    It was a different sound. I think it adds a distinct "offness", and I used chorus alot with it of phase just messing around. But again, not something worth trading the "correct " sound for, simply due to scope of use. Itd be as limiting as having a maxed out envelope follower hardwired into your guitar all the time, in my opinion.
     
    Babaluma likes this.
  3. tele_savales

    tele_savales Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    845
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Location:
    Brooklyn, Joey!
    I like having it. But all my single coil guitars have super high output pickups and I think if you have vintage output pickups it might sound a bit wimpy. If you have a 4 way switch and a push pull tone pot, you can have series out-of-phase which is very cool.
    A lot of guys are stoked on the Half oop option which I know nothing about.
     
    Geo, brookdalebill, Babaluma and 2 others like this.
  4. RifleSlinger

    RifleSlinger Tele-Meister

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    226
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Location:
    Idaho
    Whether it's worth it depends a lot on your styles of music and how your pickups interact with each other. I tried it out and skipped it with my first pickup combination, but after switching my bridge pickup and trying it, I found it was worth adding a push pull switch. I have a different switch for series/parallel.

    It can be a useful sound for funk and funky soul, for when you want to sound nasty. I wired mine with a cap and resistor to mitigate the out of phasiness just slightly, whjch sounds like a cross between out of phase, and the bridge/middle combination on a strat.
     
    qblue, Lawdawg, Peegoo and 2 others like this.
  5. RomanS

    RomanS Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,934
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Full OOP is too thin for my taste - but I like "half out of phase" (with a 2200 pF cap in series with the neck pickup in the out of phase setting - that way the bridge pickup's bass frequencies are retained), because you can get a very convincing Strat quack tone from a Tele that way, without adding a middle pickup.
     
  6. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    3,209
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Beautiful Idyllwild, CA
    You could also wire it as SERIES/out of phase. The series connection eliminates some of the thinness. It's the closest thing to a cocked-wah tone I've worked with. With a little overdrive, it can really make your solos sting and sing. FWIW, I have that option on all my Strats and Teles.
     
  7. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    2,065
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Location:
    Sonorous Desert
    I have an OOP switch on one of my Teles, the 52RI. I also have a 4-way for series/parallel, and I just have to say I don't like the OOP in any config & I'm sorry I wasted a good switch & the time it took to wire it up & the time it'll take to change it to something else. Sounding like James Burton on those old Ricky Nelson recordings didn't evoke the thrill I hoped for.
     
    oldfish, MarkSieber and Babaluma like this.
  8. Cali Dude

    Cali Dude Tele-Holic

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    899
    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Location:
    California
    I love that sound so much in a strat or a tele. That's why I got a G&L Asat semihollow Z-3 9 years ago. They are great for so many sounds, from Tele to Strat..
     
    Babaluma likes this.
  9. tele_savales

    tele_savales Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    845
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Location:
    Brooklyn, Joey!
    I think my preference for it might have something to do with the fact that the first guitar I bought with my own money was a '67 Mustang.
     
    Babaluma and radiocaster like this.
  10. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    2,065
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Location:
    Sonorous Desert
    My '64-era Teisco Del Rey came wired OOP. I didn't realize that was a mistake, only that I didn't like the sound and had to be careful not to hit those those badly-placed rocker switches when strumming. My next guitar, a Univox, was wired correctly and sounded so much better with that familiar Beach Boys lead sound.
     
  11. hemingway

    hemingway Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,452
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Location:
    London, UK
    I love the half OOP sounds on the Baja. A little gain and you're in Ziggy Stardustland.
     
    Babaluma and Lawdawg like this.
  12. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    54,267
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA + in the
    I like that "Half out of Phase" sound one gets with that Bill Lawrence 5 way switch wiring scheme.

    I've never thought of it as comparable to a Quack tone. I'll have to try them out back to back, and get back to everyone.
     
    Babaluma, gkterry and LGOberean like this.
  13. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    54,267
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA + in the
    The Fender lineup included the 50s MIM Fender Baja, ash body and some fairly husky single coil pickups. Especially the very tall Twisted Tele neck pickup that reminds many of a Strat neck pickup.

    Anyway, there's a rat's nest of wiring under the hood and you can get 7 discrete sounds out of it, including an out of phase and a 1/2 out of phase sound, and the basic four sounds (N, N + B in parallel, B, N + B in series) with a 5th kinda sorta out of phase sound. But you have to pay a huge price to get there:

    1) The pickups are not RWRP and there's no escape from 60 cycle noise on this model, in any position; and

    2) These a great guitars but they're really noisy, just plugged in and ready to hit the first note.

    I've made a bunch of clones of this 50s Baja model but none of them do this out of phase thing. RWRP pickups, 60 cycle refuge in S and P and just those 4 basic sounds. Since I bought my first Baja in 2007, I use this out of phase stuff less every year pretty much and may have not used it once, for a full year, I'm thinking.

    So, it is a novelty thing and as Tele Savales says, your pickups had better be fairly high output or no go.
     
  14. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,695
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Location:
    France
    @Babaluma,

    Well, out of phase pickup sound is quite thin and mostly very low level output. To compensate that, I would wire the pickup in serie.

    You can here these tones on the link below - I name the pickup combination before playing it :



    The guitar is this one :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps !

    -tbln
     
    Bruxist, jfiffik, Ochotona and 6 others like this.
  15. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,622
    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
  16. Crobbins

    Crobbins Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    3,306
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Location:
    Meiners Oaks CA.
    I had this custom Strat built back in 1982. The mini-toggle switches gives me many options of in, and out of phase pickups.


    [​IMG]
     
    oldfish likes this.
  17. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    54,267
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA + in the
    Thats cool!

    My girlfriend is sitting a few feet from the little speaker here, and she's working on a document and I put on your helpful clip and at the right moment she says "Out of Phase!".

    I think we have some osmosis going on here! :^)
     
  18. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,976
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Vancouver BC, Canada
    I much prefer HOOP over OOP. I have (and use) that in my thinline with microcoils.
     
    boris bubbanov likes this.
  19. SPUDCASTER

    SPUDCASTER Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    9,410
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Location:
    Grangeville, Idaho
    Depends on what you're into.

    The early Merle Haggard stuff(Fugitive era) with James Burton. He was using the OOP tone.

    A lot of country players of that era used it due to James. Especially the west coast players.
     
    Babaluma likes this.
  20. Mur

    Mur Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,905
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    With 3 pup tele, you can get the screamin' lead-part tone of Bohemian Rhapsody with middle and neck pups out of phase.
     
    Babaluma likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.